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New I use emacs
It's not a macho thing. Emacs is better for me. Anyone who has watched me use it has no doubt of that. But then again, emacs is an IDE as well, just not a visual one.

As far as your example goes:
\nprivate String mSomeString;\n\npublic void setSomeString(somaString)\n{\n    mSomeString = someString;\n}\n

Compiler error. This is defensive programming. The technique you used is one I do not recommend. Using a visual identifier to flag members avoids problems of exactly this kind. Code that doesn't do so drives me nuts.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New That was just 1 example
For me the prefix drives me nuts. In any case you still have errors like if (a = b) and many others. Do you have autocompletion, intellisense, teh ability to jump to declarations etc. in Emacs?
New Re: That was just 1 example
The prefix may drive you nuts, but it's a demonstrably better way to code.

Autocompletion: yes. I don't use it; I know what I'm typing, and having an editor suggest what it thinks I'm doing annoys me to no end.

Intellisense: same as autocompletion, isn't it?

Jump to declarations: yes. I don't use it, because I know where I'm going and it's easier to just do it.

There's a Java interpreter as well (BeanShell).

I've used a lot of IDEs. They all just get in the way compared to Emacs.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New What I meant was ...
that it suggests gives you a tooltip of the parameters. I for one never remember the order of parameters in System.arraycopy and many other Java API's, the IDE in a tooltip lets me know the order of parameters.

I didn't mean jump to declarations, but jump to a method in another class that you are using because you want to see something, or find all the usages of this method, or all the implementers of this Interface, etc.

I also find that the syntax checker is very useful, it marks in red all teh lines taht won't compile so that I don't need to run my Ant build and find all my silly little typos.
New Re: What I meant was ...
As I said, I hit Javadocs 3 to 4 times a day.

Jump to another class: it's in there. I don't use it because I find the dired mode more useful.

I've used several IDEs with syntax checkers. The utility compared to simple highlighting is not a large delta, compared to everything I'd lose if I stopped using emacs. I believe someone's written an incremental compile mode for emacs, too.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New I never really used Emacs ...
so I can't compare. From everything I have heard Emacs is tremendously productive. Note, the developers at Infoworld are using Ultraedit and VI (as well as Emacs). There is no way that VI or Ultraedit is as productive.
New No argument there.
Simple text editors are a bad joke.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New But if they're using VIM and calling it VI
then I would have to disagree. VIM has syntax checking (nice pretty colors to show you your errors).

The only thing that an IDE has that VIM doesn't (for me), is a nice way to profile the code so that I could tell what sections of code were taking the longest.
New I find the prefix to be distracting
It distracts me from reading the variable name and understanding what the variable does. Instance variables are important and should be as clear as possible. I prefer the Smalltalk paradigm where parameters are usually prefixed by "a" for example:

public void setName(String aName) {
name = aName;
}

It serves the same purpose.
New That would work as well.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Use leading underscores for ivars - less distracting
I agree that mThing is ugly. Mostly because for most people, reading involves pumping text through a sound generator and then into your auditory processor (hence that little voice in your head when you read). This is why deaf people have a harder time learning to read than the hearing.

OTOH, _thing is good for ivars. I'm never tempted to pronounce the underscore.



That was lovely cheese.

     --Wallace, The Wrong Trousers
Expand Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 06:29:38 AM EDT
New Little features won me over
Take a random example, System.arraycopy what are the parameters and their orders? I have no clue off the top of my head and Java as opposed to Smalltalk provides absolutely no help. There are a lot of methods like this that take multiple parameters in who knows what order. In my Xemacs days I had to go look at the Javadoc to see, now when I type in System. I get the autocompletion and when I select arraycopy I get the parameter list with the variable names.

Another feature is auto-imports, ctrl-enter automatically imports the class. Of course there is real time syntax checking, we use Ant for building so this way I don't have to run a build to find out that I have a type or missed a semi-colon.

These all seem like little things but in the course of a day add up. What is it about Emacs that makes it so productive for you? Intellij in fact offers an Emcas keymapping.
New Re: Little features won me over
I still look in the JavaDocs. On a typical day I may hit the JavaDocs 3 or 4 times. Big deal. If I could be arsed to look it up, there's a keystroke that would take me to the function definition in the browser.

Autoimports: meh. There are any number of tools that can rationalize imports. In the end, its not enough to get me to switch.

Syntax checking: highlighting is sufficient for my needs.

All emacs keymappings suck. Why? Because without exception they only extend to editor itself. Emacs is productive because *everything* in the editor uses the keymapping. The shell, the directory browser, the compiler output... everything. Emacs is much more integrated than any so-called IDE, because everything is a buffer and they all act the same way. I can run a macro that iterates a list of files in a directory (or subdirectories for that matter), performing a series of operations on each one, without every leaving emacs. In the end the sum of this approach is much more valuable than any collection of little features (most of which I have anyway, and just don't use).

Example: what do you need to do in IntelliJ to edit files that can only be accessed by FTP? Or how about viewing or editing files in a .jar contained in a .war contained in a .ear? How about running a macro across, say, all of the .tld files in a nested jar? Emacs does all of this transparently.

And lets go one step further. Emacs has the same sort of features available for Perl, SQL, C, shell script, you name it. All of which I use on a daily basis. Switching to the SQL IDE or the C++ IDE or whatever is a productivity killer when emacs treats them all the same.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New I am only doing Java now
If I had to do other languages as well I might think differently. For Java I find that Intellij provides a very good set of features that are all easily accessible both by keystrokes and the mouse. I have not run into any of the situations that you mentioned. I am doing hard core Java development, Here Intellij shines.
New Re: I am only doing Java now
You've never needed to browse a .jar? Odd, I do that all the time.

But yes, a specialized tool will usually outshine a general-purpose tool. Except for that bit about consistency that I mentioned. And since emacs has most of the "features" that the visual IDEs have...
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New I do browse jars ...
Intellij allows you to browse any jar in your classpath and will decompile the class file and show you all the methods. Netbeans has a similar feature, I would guess that Eclipse probably has it as well. In truth, I find Intellij much better then both Eclipse and Netbeans.
Expand Edited by bluke Sept. 12, 2004, 12:28:50 PM EDT
New How about embedded ones?
Sounds like they might be finally starting to catch up, then. ;-)

Emacs does .arj, .tar, .tgz, and .gz as well... ;-)
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New ICLRPD (new thread)
Created as new thread #173777 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=173777|ICLRPD]
     Do you use an IDE? - (bluke) - (63)
         I use emacs - (admin) - (17)
             That was just 1 example - (bluke) - (9)
                 Re: That was just 1 example - (admin) - (8)
                     What I meant was ... - (bluke) - (4)
                         Re: What I meant was ... - (admin) - (3)
                             I never really used Emacs ... - (bluke) - (2)
                                 No argument there. - (admin)
                                 But if they're using VIM and calling it VI - (Simon_Jester)
                     I find the prefix to be distracting - (bluke) - (2)
                         That would work as well. -NT - (admin)
                         Use leading underscores for ivars - less distracting - (tuberculosis)
             Little features won me over - (bluke) - (6)
                 Re: Little features won me over - (admin) - (5)
                     I am only doing Java now - (bluke) - (3)
                         Re: I am only doing Java now - (admin) - (2)
                             I do browse jars ... - (bluke) - (1)
                                 How about embedded ones? - (admin)
                     ICLRPD (new thread) - (Another Scott)
         I'm bouncing back and forth on this. - (broomberg) - (36)
             There is no question ... - (bluke) - (30)
                 OK - (broomberg) - (29)
                     Not that I am selling Intellij ... - (bluke) - (28)
                         Doubt it - (broomberg) - (27)
                             Most of my typing is inserting text. - (admin) - (2)
                                 ed is the standard text editor. -NT - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                     ? -NT - (admin)
                             Modes are evil. - (FuManChu) - (23)
                                 ? -NT - (pwhysall) - (14)
                                     ? RTFA - (FuManChu) - (13)
                                         ? -NT - (pwhysall) - (8)
                                             Love ya man -NT - (FuManChu)
                                             Type faster, Barry! :D -NT - (FuManChu) - (1)
                                                 Huh? -NT - (broomberg)
                                             I did RTFA - (broomberg) - (4)
                                                 ? - (pwhysall) - (3)
                                                     ? - (FuManChu) - (1)
                                                         Footpedal - (altmann)
                                                     Yup - (broomberg)
                                         ? -NT - (admin) - (3)
                                             ??? -NT - (Yendor) - (2)
                                                 ???? -NT - (broomberg) - (1)
                                                     !!! -NT - (Yendor)
                                 Modals wobble but they don't fall down. - (Another Scott) - (7)
                                     ROfsckingFL! - (jb4) - (6)
                                         Yep, teco was great. - (admin)
                                         In that case - (broomberg) - (4)
                                             Wuss - (pwhysall)
                                             Oh dear -- you woke Peter up. :-D -NT - (static) - (1)
                                                 Stalker! -NT - (pwhysall)
                                             Used both... - (jb4)
             VI keys. - (static) - (3)
                 I have heard this many times but never understood it - (bluke) - (2)
                     Refocus down just a little bit. - (static)
                     For me? - (Simon_Jester)
             IDEA for Java - (tuberculosis)
         The refactor tools are good - (ChrisR)
         Call it a terminology mismatch, then - (FuManChu) - (4)
             But that is what I use it for! - (broomberg) - (2)
                 How about this - (drewk) - (1)
                     Mostly. - (FuManChu)
             Maybe - (bluke)
         I don't either - (ben_tilly)
         I think I put my finger on it - (drewk)

No. It's "MIDDLE-Endian"!!!
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