Post #171,752
8/30/04 5:29:56 PM
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I'll bet debugging your code is a real joy...
;-)
jb4 shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #171,885
8/31/04 10:04:06 AM
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Nope
The joy comes when you read your standard, forget your common sence and assume that same things work the same way everywhere.
--
"...was poorly, lugubrious and intoxicated."
-- Patrick O'Brian, "Master and Commander"
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Post #171,899
8/31/04 11:04:10 AM
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And so tell me, O Oracle of Common Sence [sic]
What exactly is it that is so nonsensical about defining a hex value and assuming it is treated as a signed value? We supplicate ourselves breathlessly at your feet awaiting such pearls (or is that perls) of wisdom as you may deign to proffer.
jb4 shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #171,902
8/31/04 11:10:45 AM
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offensive foul, ball to Ark
You violated the "be kind to non-native English speakers" (who do extremely well in a totally different language and make us look stupid by comparison) rule.
Just point out that it's "sense".
BTW Ark - "licence" and "license" are both right. One is British. Likewise "offence" and "offense", "defence" and "defense". But "electric fense" is always wrong.
-drl
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Post #171,909
8/31/04 11:17:52 AM
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Rest assured,
I'd be making the same mistakes in Russian as well.
Por syntax checus in Cium - Deo Gratie.
--
"...was poorly, lugubrious and intoxicated."
-- Patrick O'Brian, "Master and Commander"
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Post #171,913
8/31/04 11:25:55 AM
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:) ok
-drl
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Post #171,914
8/31/04 11:26:24 AM
8/31/04 11:26:59 AM
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OK, OK...
I'll take my yellow card and give up an indirect free kick....
;-)
jb4 shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
Edited by jb4
Aug. 31, 2004, 11:26:59 AM EDT
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Post #171,904
8/31/04 11:14:05 AM
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Well, while the tone is disagreable, the question is
(almost) legit \n#include <stdio.h>\n\n\nint main(int argc, char**argv) {\n int c = -0xFF;\n printf("signed: %d, hex: %X\\n", c, c);\n return 0;\n}\n \n$ gcc -o test test.c; ./test\nsigned: -255, hex: FFFFFF01\n And the answer is <drrrrum rrrroll>: The hex constants are treated as positive because they lack the "minus" in front. Tada!
--
"...was poorly, lugubrious and intoxicated."
-- Patrick O'Brian, "Master and Commander"
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Post #171,912
8/31/04 11:25:35 AM
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Point missed.
The point is not that I can generate a negative number using hex values, its that I can generate a specific bit pattern directly that is interpreted correctly using two's compliment arithmetic. In my example, I want the bit pattern 0x80000000. Interpreted as an int. Which is what I should expect, given that incomplete pile of verbage that passes as the C(99) standard in section 6.4.4.1, paragraph 5. Your example doesn't match, as you explicitly change the value of your bit pattern by applying an operator to it (the unary minus).
jb4 shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #171,915
8/31/04 11:26:40 AM
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If C were sane, TRUE = -1 and problem vanishes
-drl
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Post #171,917
8/31/04 11:28:42 AM
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Ermm...say What?
You got me on that one, Ross. How does the value of a boolean have anything to do with how a constant token is interpreted?
jb4 shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #171,924
8/31/04 11:37:26 AM
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Re: Ermm...say What?
It forces strict attention to signed vs. unsigned, because TRUE is signed.
IOW we don't need no steenkin Booleans.
-drl
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Post #171,929
8/31/04 11:43:34 AM
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Much like Jewish law
Forces strict attention to matters divine because it's so easy to transgress. Any takers?
You recommend a practice because it's easy to violate? Ouch.
--
"...was poorly, lugubrious and intoxicated."
-- Patrick O'Brian, "Master and Commander"
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Post #171,961
8/31/04 1:01:31 PM
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So you prefer how VB does it??
To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act - [link|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20|Nebraska Supreme Court]
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Post #171,962
8/31/04 1:04:18 PM
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Point: Ben...
jb4 shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #171,972
8/31/04 1:47:19 PM
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How it used to do it.
VB.Net had to play a little nicer with the other languages, so they switched to the way it's represented in C#.
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Post #171,991
8/31/04 3:18:32 PM
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Hehee!
VB was "embraced and extended" by C! Oh, the irony!
jb4 shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #171,921
8/31/04 11:31:50 AM
8/31/04 11:32:44 AM
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Why do you expect hex to be treated differently from decimal
?
When you see a decimal constant 4294967294, do you expect it to mean -2?
--
"...was poorly, lugubrious and intoxicated."
-- Patrick O'Brian, "Master and Commander"
Edited by Arkadiy
Aug. 31, 2004, 11:32:44 AM EDT
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Post #171,926
8/31/04 11:42:16 AM
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Re: Why do you expect hex to be treated differently
In FORTH this issue never arises. An integer is what it is in relation to base 2 and the number of available bits in it. Signed vs. unsigned is a stupid, needless complication.
So: TRUE is 111111...1 and FALSE is 000000...0. There is only one TRUE and one FALSE and NOT TRUE is FALSE. Something like 1101001..1 has no logical value.
The programmatic representation is immaterial.
-drl
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Post #171,953
8/31/04 12:37:46 PM
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Man, that's a good question!
I suppose because I can specify a bit pattern directly, and I expected that bit pattern to be interpreted by the underlying hardware directly. But I must say, I now see your point, and it is a good one.
Thanx!
jb4 shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #172,013
8/31/04 4:42:17 PM
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Now that's clarity!
Alex
"If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words." -- Philip K. Dick, US science fiction writer
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Post #172,017
8/31/04 5:00:03 PM
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Nope, it's bad math
A 32 bit integer has 4...mumble possible values. If you really want integers and not whole numbers, then implicitly these are signed, which requires a bit. So there are 2...mumble positive values, 2...mumble-1 negative values, and zero.
If you want 4...mumble integers you need more bits.
-drl
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Post #172,022
8/31/04 5:19:13 PM
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But, counters of real things don't need negative values.
Alex
"If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words." -- Philip K. Dick, US science fiction writer
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Post #172,023
8/31/04 5:20:08 PM
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I'd like to add a negative number of votes for Bush. ;-)
To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act - [link|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20|Nebraska Supreme Court]
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Post #172,025
8/31/04 5:23:34 PM
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That only works on Diebold machines. :)
Alex
"If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words." -- Philip K. Dick, US science fiction writer
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Post #172,024
8/31/04 5:21:51 PM
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Certainly
But then, Ark's comment loses its pithiness (\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd)
-drl
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Post #172,046
8/31/04 6:59:29 PM
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"Expressive", not "pithy" :)
"pithy" I guess would be better translated as poisonous, ядовитый - it's an idiomatic usage.
--
"...was poorly, lugubrious and intoxicated."
-- Patrick O'Brian, "Master and Commander"
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Post #172,047
8/31/04 7:03:32 PM
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Re: "Expressive", not "pithy" :)
Why can I see your Cyrillic but not mine? Some encoding mojo?
-drl
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Post #172,172
9/1/04 9:33:56 AM
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Dunno.
I see yours fine in Mozilla on Win 2000 after I select the proper code page - Cyrillic Windows-1251
--
"...was poorly, lugubrious and intoxicated."
-- Patrick O'Brian, "Master and Commander"
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