Post #170,502
8/20/04 8:54:35 PM
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Probably.
But I was told to minimize the amount of stuff I add to this system in order to get this process to work. And Cygwin is another world unto itself.
We will end up putting in the commercial ssh server on Monday.
I actually got the scripting of the Windows telnet interface to work. I redefined the EOL character to ESCAPE, which ususually gives me defined chunks of data to look through and test for the required interaction.
But the default Windows telnet server only allows 2 connection, and I need around 8. Installing SFU will up that, and also allow console mode, but I would rather pay for an ssh server then walk into the SFU trap again.
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Post #170,503
8/20/04 9:08:39 PM
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So you paid money to avoid putting free stuff on?
Every time during this project that you want to reach for a *nix tool, remember that comment. :-P
Cheers, Ben
To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act - [link|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20|Nebraska Supreme Court]
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Post #170,510
8/20/04 10:27:47 PM
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Yes
This is Windows.
I NEVER want to be responsible for the care and feeding of this box. We have a Windows admin who will be responsible for it. He has experience with a commercial SSH server environment. I would prefer to use something he is comfortable with.
If I use Cygwin, it will probably work. But I have very little experience with Cygwin and it seems everytime I tried to play with anything that required launching on box boot and acting in the pre-login environment things were odd. I'm fudding right now since I don't really remember, I just know I stumbled around a lot.
So if I set it up, and 2 months from now I'm working on another project, who will troubleshoot it if there is a problem? And note: A problem on this box means 45 people and 15 BIG printers will be sitting idle.
So, I want to minimize anything that will require me being yanked in. Let the admin handle it. Which means using something he is comfortable with.
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Post #170,512
8/20/04 10:38:22 PM
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Agreed.
The SSH Tectia server is a whole lot more fire-and-forget than the chewing-gum-and-gaffer-tape assembly of Cygwin.
If you want to be taken seriously deploying UNIXy type things on Windows, don't use Cygwin.
The discussion of Windows as a suitable platform can take place elsewhere; sometimes there isn't a choice.
Peter [link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire] [link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal] [link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #170,543
8/21/04 10:41:16 AM
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Nope, I was wrong about the ssh server
Subject: RE: What ssh server do we put on Windows?
Minimal install of cygwin with the ssh executable...
Directory of C:\\etc ssh_host_key ssh_host_key.pub ssh_random_seed
Directory of C:\\Program Files\\ssh
cygwin1.dll instsrv.exe scp.exe srvany.exe ssh-keygen.exe ssh.exe sshd.8 sshd.exe
---------------------------------------------------- So I lean toward PHB much further than my boss, ehh?
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Post #170,552
8/21/04 12:59:51 PM
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No comment
To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act - [link|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20|Nebraska Supreme Court]
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Post #170,764
8/24/04 6:37:00 AM
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WinSSHD
For some reason the admin who had gotten Cygnus / SSHD working before was having troubles now. It refused to let me login. Maybee I was specifying the login name wrong.
As I was Googling for help, I stumbled across WinSSHD, [link|http://www.bitvise.com/winsshd.html|http://www.bitvise.com/winsshd.html].
Installed on laptop, tested, fine.
Installed on server, tested, fine.
$99.
My inner geek wanted to play with Cygwin and make it work. My inner PHB said put the WinSSHD and be done.
My inner PHB won.
Nice product, lots of tweaks, bells, and whistles.
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Post #170,556
8/21/04 1:25:58 PM
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Should also ask what *X* server you put on Windows...
I am betting. Anyone else?
-- [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg], [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwetheyNo matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]Here is an example: [link|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]
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Post #170,560
8/21/04 1:49:04 PM
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Probably none.
X on Win32 is a suboptimal solution.
Peter [link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire] [link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal] [link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #170,581
8/21/04 6:07:49 PM
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RightyO
I don't have many X specific programs I need to run. qmon from Sun Grid Engine comes to mind. Gvim is another, but vim over putty is almost OK. So I don't do X under Windows.
Some people in our database group do, and they use Cygwin. We typically have the choice of a dual monitor single computer or 2 computers, single monitor each. Most people have a dual monitor Windows box, a few have one of each.
I have a dual Linux box, and another computer (now the laptop) for Windows.
If I really need X from the laptop, I can boot a VMWare partition. I've installed Knoppix so far, and it works well enough.
Speaking of Windows (to come back to topic), I just stumbled across these tools. VERY NICE.
[link|http://www.sysinternals.com/ntw2k/utilities.shtml|http://www.sysintern...k/utilities.shtml]
The BEST one (so far) is Process Explorer, followed by File Monitor.
I bought TracePlus ([link|http://www.sstinc.com/windows.html|http://www.sstinc.com/windows.html]) for this but I like these free tools much better.
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Post #170,588
8/21/04 6:35:38 PM
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Boggle..
Have had SysInternals stuff and the Radsoft Rixtools collection of tiny, fast, bitchin utils for years (also Sam Spade). Natch, you could exploit their subtleties a millyun times better than moi, but how could it be that this stuff is New to You?
I though that Process Explorer, File Monitor were staples [?]
(Less'n of course, all along.. you've successfully evaded having to do shit with any Doze box -- but that's so unCorporate as to appear ummm.. fantastical?)
:-0
moi
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Post #170,593
8/21/04 7:28:24 PM
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Yup. No Windows.
Almost.
You need to remember that I reported to my brother for about 6 years. He was in charge the of database group and I was the technical architect. So any time he started leaning towards a windows solution for a problem I'd ask if he was going to be implementing and supporting it.
Not that I don't appreciate the tools on the desktop. I just don't trust them for any length of time. I ALWAYS get burned and have to write around a problem. I'm not allowed to give up and say something does not work.
My last windows desktop was Win 95. Early Win 95. And that was for a short while. That is when I started using a Linux desktop, which really meant a rudimentary X that I really did not like.
And then KDE came out.
After that, the ONLY time I used Windows was when I was forced to run a specific app, but I always had a separate box to run it on.
Since my work was database on Oracle on SCO and then Solaris, 95% of my time was spent Xtermed into another box anyway.
About a 1.5 years ago I did a project that used SQL/Server as the DB, but did all my non-DB processing on a Linux box.
All Windows query tools that our clients or employees used on the database are supported by other people. Once the data was loaded my piece was done.
So yes, I have managed to escape Windows for the most part.
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Post #170,614
8/22/04 6:34:06 AM
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Wow..
What a coup!
I would guess then, that you are well & truly despised (the final form of unrequited envy) by legions of folks who found themselves incapable, for whatever reasons - of such a heroic career of perfect-evasion ;-)
er Kudos!! (I suppose - when it's your brother, you can phrase it that way)
If only I hadn't been given that free Win 3.0 demo, not long after CP/M, I mighta been a contender. I marvel at now 3+ years of only unserious events, no reloads, via the One True Solution: never ask this spastic cripple to do more than walk, never for more than one day at a time.. and never Try Stuff on the same box you'd rather not rebuild.
It's not actually bad, that way. I just want to see how long this sucker will go, now; entertainment, before having to choose which Door #2, Knop --> Debian in stages -?- or that other weird guy in Cupertino.
Not a very good scheme for say, running a business. Never understood how that is actually done, though countless posts have made clear - it's never done without continuous pain, even in Redmond. What a field: IT in '04
Would put you up for the Sly Perspicuity Award, Two Ears + a Grail -- but I think you've already got your reward, and it's priceless.
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Post #170,621
8/22/04 11:23:08 AM
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Part of it's age
It's a lot harder to do that now. The point being that personal choice increases the longer you're in the career (as long as you keep advancing, anyway), and when he started it was a lot less ubiquitous than it is now.
Pity the poor cubiclites, for they have no choice.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #170,678
8/22/04 11:34:37 PM
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Makes sense; newbies get the full brunt, then.
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Post #170,615
8/22/04 8:42:52 AM
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I assume you meant these
[link|http://www.radsoft.net/products/|http://www.radsoft.net/products/]
No wonder you are so paranoid. You actively watch those out to get you.
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Post #170,677
8/22/04 11:09:42 PM
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It might seem so - but:
Nowadays I use a small fraction of any tools and, rarely; it just isn't worth it to imagine you're going to "find out all you need to know" to keep a Doze system walking. That is the full meaning of, dynamic irreproducibility (or, nondeterminate) as I have experienced it. (OK - for someone like Andrew and a few, revise that. But sans that lengthy experience, all kept in a mind.. never mind.)
Yeah.. once I thought a bunch of notes, logs, utils and stuff could help. And sometimes the utils do. Not Worth the Time in 20/20. KISS is all I'll trust re any Billyware whatsoever. I cannot Imagine trusting a Company to this crap - one need not be a coder to recognize built-in badness, though I suppose it helps to tabulate and correlate a few of the underlying reasons.
Or does it? knowing that Nothing will be done / Can be done to make this POS network at 5-Nines AND be legacy-compatible. Last I heard..
Other-tech Ex:
The famous Victoreen "Area Monitor" - a lab wall-mount geiger counter with settable alarm window and a gawdawful mini-klaxon - was a straightforward early-transistorized monitor, seen/heard! in many movies, etc.
Have one downstairs: an interstage xfmr had shorted turn-turn, and on the exact day after Chernobyl! (Looking for fallout - had another counter, though)
No parts for eons, but it is a Classic Thing. I had to unwind and measure length of the 32-AWG? fine-wire == far better than imagining a turns-count! I suppose that I might someday rewind the sucker; at least that is a Known route to restoration.
With Doze: there IS no 'known route', once past the trivial. That millions have accepted this - proves the onset of species-dumbth, all by itself.
moi and.. Lucky You!
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