Post #166,200
7/26/04 10:17:26 PM
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PHP vs VB ASP
Having now spent a month doing PHP programming, I can't claim to be an expert but I've done enough to make some conclusions about the differences between them.
I'm comparing VB ASP programming to PHP 3 and PHP 4 here, I don't have enough experience with ASP.NET to compare that and PHP 5 is too new.
I don't seen any significant difference in speed. It would appear that in the past (early IIS server vs PHP 2/3) that PHP would have had a significant speed advantage. But this doesn't appear to be the case anymore. Both are contrained by the speed of the connection and server limits more then language speed.
Security wise, both make it far too easy to write insecure code. PHP 3 the worst here, requiring many complexities to secure, but PHP 4 and ASP are roughly on par if your server is setup decently. But all the languages still require a fair about of care to avoid allowing SQL injection or giving away information.
Elegance wise, ASP has a small edge. The VB script language is more internally consistant then PHP 3 or PHP 4. PHP suffers here because of it's kitchen sink design, the people that built it threw in anything they thought would be useful without concern for consistancy, redunancy, actual utility or security risks.
However that same flaw gives PHP 3 and 4 an advantage in terms of language power. I have not found anything in PHP that could not be done in ASP, but I have found many things that I had to write custom routines in ASP that are built in commands in PHP. In particular, far more powerful regular expresions and a nice selection of array manipulation commands mean that some things that took 10 or 20 lines of code in VB ASP can be done in 1 or 2 on PHP.
In terms of being an object oriented language. PHP 3 isn't, PHP 4 is barely tolerable, and ASP is poor. Both PHP 5 and ASP.NET are supposed to be far superior in this regards. In all of the current systems, I would avoid an object oriented design except where the situtation clearly calls for one.
Overall, I would say PHP 4 edges out VB ASP and both clearly beat PHP 3.
Jay
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Post #166,201
7/26/04 10:29:21 PM
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Re: PHP vs VB ASP
So, what's it feel like to get a paycheck? :)
-drl
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Post #166,203
7/26/04 10:58:26 PM
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Sweet
Paychecks sweet.
But it doesn't look like it is going to be permanent. It's all up in the air, but I'm being told on a week by week basis if they need me next week and it looks like I'll have worked through their back log in a couple more.
Jay
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Post #166,207
7/26/04 11:17:37 PM
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I'll bet :)
Nice report too. When VB almost wins, we can safely conclude that web programming is an immature medium.
-drl
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Post #166,217
7/26/04 11:45:25 PM
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"When VB almost wins"
Against *PHP*? And from this you declare that web programming is immature?
Why don't you do some first before making pronouncements? :-P
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #166,223
7/27/04 12:04:05 AM
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Re: "When VB almost wins"
I assume Jay knows his stuff, and so I don't have to!
And I can't think of anything more boring than web programming, so it's very very unlikely that I'll ever know more than I did .001 second ago.
-drl
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Post #166,257
7/27/04 9:59:26 AM
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Jay was comparing VB and PHP...
Not the wide multitude of other environments.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #166,291
7/27/04 12:51:46 PM
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Re: Jay was comparing VB and PHP...
Well name one that has something like elegance. Programming is only fun when it's "realized elegance". Just making a computer do something loses interest fast (at least for me).
-drl
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Post #166,302
7/27/04 2:43:30 PM
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Re: Jay was comparing VB and PHP...
Well name one that has something like elegance. Seaside. The rest consist of hacks and practical tools. Same as everything else. There's stuff to get the job done, and then there's screwing around. Screwing around is for people who aren't satisfied with just getting a job done, who need something else (I'm one of those). Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #167,225
8/3/04 2:21:53 AM
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satisfied....
There's stuff to get the job done, and then there's screwing around. Screwing around is for people who aren't satisfied with just getting a job done, who need something else (I'm one of those). So THAT's what OO is for, eh? :-) No, I agree that programming is more fun when one can experiment a bit......just not with $*@#&! OOP. One thing I liked about ASP is the ability to have regional-scoped variables without declaring a header for each and every function. That results in giant parameter lists in PHP, which is a code-smell IMO. (At least allow nested functions, like Pascal, if you are gonna do that.) On the other hand, one had to use Option Explicit to keep their sanity in ASP, requiring declarations of everything. So, I guess they break even in that regard. And as stated, PHP has better associative array support. In ASP you have to call bloated system objects to emulate them. ________________
oop.ismad.com
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Post #166,527
7/28/04 8:10:12 PM
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Sounds like an LRPD (new thread)
Created as new thread #166526 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=166526|Sounds like an LRPD]
lincoln
"Windows XP has so many holes in its security that any reasonable user will conclude it was designed by the same German officer who created the prison compound in "Hogan's Heroes." - Andy Ihnatko, Chicago Sun-Times
[link|mailto:bconnors@ev1.net|contact me]
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Post #166,224
7/27/04 12:13:52 AM
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Major disagreement
In all of the current systems, I would avoid an object oriented design except where the situtation clearly calls for one. PHP4 supports OO programming, but is admittedly weak at enforcing it. For example there are no truly private methods or properties, but with some discipline you can write as though there were. We've been doing this for several months. (Before that it was used by some developers but not all, and not consistently when it was used.) We recently installed PHP5 on one server to see how much porting effort would be involved in migrating all of our sites. So far everything that has been written in the past several months, and much of what came before that, ran without modification. The advantage is that PHP5 will allow us to enforce the best practices that are currently only enforced through policy. ===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
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Post #166,227
7/27/04 12:29:49 AM
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The sum total of my ASP experience
<%@Language=Python%>
<%
from dejavu.html.uiasp import UserInterfaceASP as ui
import mcontrol
ui(mcontrol.application, Request, Response).request()
%>
Look, Ma, no VB! :)
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