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New All I ever asked
was for real proof that the alternative reasoning was true. Show me the facts, the hard evidence, the proof of the alternative reasoning.

All I've seen so far are unconvincing conspiracy theories, in fact that is all F911 really is, a conspiracy theory.

Let us use some logic here.

If George W. Bush is guilty of what the other posters are saying here, and what Moore said in F911, he would be impeached, correct? There would be credible evidence that Bush did wrong, and thus should be removed from power. Yet this never happened. Logically since it never happened, there cannot be any credible evidence to back up the claims.

Hence, those other posters are guilty of what I have been accused of. Lying, manipulating, story telling, etc. To paraphrase Ashton's words Your lies are of the Microsofian level and boring to boot, you all suffer from an inferiority complex.

I hold it in my views that the posts made here against Bush are nothing more than smoke and mirrors, to put it bluntly, bullshit. History repeats itself, Salem Witch-hunts, McCarthyism, now Moorism which some call Hatriotism. You can all speculate, assume, and gossip as much as you want, but until you can produce any credible evidence that leads to the impeachment of George W. Bush, I ask you nicely to STFU.



"What's the use of saving life when you see what you do with it?" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"




[link|http://www.xormad.com:4096/district268|I am from District 268].
New Hehe. Impeach Bush?
With a Republican Congress?

Here is a another area where your blinders won't let you see anything other than the silly little argument such as:


If George W. Bush is guilty of what the other posters are saying here, and what Moore said in F911, he would be impeached, correct?


I accept that Moore's film is filled with hyperbole. It is a propaganda film. So what?

The man hears God tell him what to do and he does it. He has stated this publicly several times.

[link|http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A37944-2003Jun26?language=printer|http://www.washingto...?language=printer]


President Bush had told him this: " God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam [ Hussein], which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them."


HE IS INSANE.

If someone with a lot less money and connections said the same thing, they would be locked up for the protection of themselves and others. Instead, this guy orders the armed forces to go kill people and to die for his beliefs.

But no, he will never be impeached. Political reality won't allow for that. So you setup a straw man. It is a bullshit argument.

As least right now you seem lucid enought that I'm not worried about sending you off to kill yourself. Welcome back to the world of semi-competency.
New Logic is the path from assumptions to conclusion
Your basic assumption is that a President who acts badly will be impeached. I firmly disagree with this assumption.

In a point in time where you have hard-line Republicans in control (even if by small margins) of Congress, the Senate, the Presidency, and the Supreme Court, it would take truly extraordinary evidence to start impeachment proceedings against the President. Furthermore it is not at all clear that it is an impeachable offence to have a President who is motivated by a desire to maintain a relationship that historically has been of great benefit to the USA.

As for your requested facts and hard evidence, you're setting a double standard. Your theories, even when they contradict available evidence, do not require facts. Anyone else's theories must be proven beyond reasonable doubt. As I pointed out in [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=164279|http://z.iwethey.org...?contentid=164279], your theory has yet to be reconciled to the fact that the man who arranged for 9/11 to happen was funded by Saudi oil money, and the majority of the hijackers were Saudi citizens.

Explaining that is easy - but you need to have a model of Saudi Arabian behaviour that is more complex than their being a rational actor out for their own economic best interest. Of course that simplistic model is exactly what your theory is based on.

And right now you're rejecting the complication that I offered, which is that the leaders of Saudi Arabia are trying to balance the internal forces that they need to satisfy to remain in charge of Saudi Arabia, and thereby continue generating oil profit, and the value of investments that are external to Saudi Arabia. This is a fairly reasonable complication. It doesn't even contradict your theory of human behavior - they are still motivated by their own economic self-interest. However by being put in a more complex situation, they are forced to play a balancing act where, though they wouldn't intentionally destroy the US economy, could make a serious mistake.

You haven't offered any evidence against this hypothesis. You have igored evidence for it. As far as I can tell, you haven't shown enough interest to read up on the Wahabi faith. You haven't seen it important to comment on how extreme the religious laws in Saudi Arabia are. These are signs of the internal forces that I mentioned. People who believe in beheading a girl for flirting with a guy are unlikely to have warm fuzzies for the USA. People like that who're given money could well act against US interests. Yet Saudi Arabia gives money to people who're exactly like that - in fact they run the state religion!

If you wish to reject my hypothesis that these religious extremists have political influence in Saudi Arabia, and the Saudi leaders need to placate them to continue profiting from oil, then I'd like an alternate explanation of why the Saudi government gives them substantial sums of money. A fact that is easy to verify if you wish to.

Cheers,
Ben
To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act
- [link|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20|Nebraska Supreme Court]
New Verily I say, thou hast the Patience of Job.. or was that
Steve Jobs, when remonstrating with The Beast (about what 'intellectual property theft' might mean, in practice). Surely a similar chasm?


     a review of 911 by Matt Labash - (boxley) - (105)
         I shocked, shocked I tell you. - (mmoffitt)
         At least Moore's honest about his craft - (ChrisR) - (6)
             Moore? Honest? He had disclaimers? tell me moore -NT - (boxley) - (5)
                 He admits his craft has a purpose - (ChrisR) - (4)
                     It's a polemic - (deSitter)
                     Conservative AM talk radio station this morning - (lincoln) - (2)
                         As Ebert pointed out.. - (deSitter)
                         National Geographic has a POV - (ChrisR)
         Screw that. Where's *your* review? - (Silverlock) - (24)
             I will do my own review - (boxley) - (20)
                 What's your local theater? - (Silverlock) - (19)
                     problem, how do I explain to 5 other people - (boxley) - (18)
                         I'll donate another ticket for you... -NT - (ben_tilly) - (3)
                             guys, ITS A FRIGGIN MOVIE!!! not the second coming sheesh! -NT - (boxley) - (2)
                                 Just trying to reduce the number of your excuses -NT - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                                     no excuses, I will watch it in the same way I watch all - (boxley)
                         Whatever. - (Silverlock)
                         I'll donate another ticket for you... That's 3. - (Ashton) - (12)
                             One from me, that's 4 - (broomberg) - (10)
                                 ROAD TRIP!!! -NT - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                     Thou sayest Well, - (Ashton)
                                 That works for me... - (ben_tilly) - (7)
                                     Seconded - (drewk) - (6)
                                         plastic pint bottles and cargo pants would work -NT - (boxley)
                                         Re: Seconded - (deSitter) - (1)
                                             Spent a whole night playing piano drunk once. - (admin)
                                         Sheesh. - (admin) - (2)
                                             A Fair question - (Ashton) - (1)
                                                 See the headlines now - (boxley)
                             wont be voting there, patriot and ashcroft still in place -NT - (boxley)
             Well, here's one - (inthane-chan) - (2)
                 you didnt use a debit card to pay for the tickey did you? -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                     What, you think I'm an idiot? - (inthane-chan)
         Tip from a Friend on what to do after seeing it. - (mmoffitt) - (3)
             Citoyens! Aux barricades! -NT - (deSitter)
             Re: Tip from a Friend on what to do after seeing it. - (deSitter)
             That is good -NT - (boxley)
         another review of Fahrenheit 9/11 - (Ashton) - (1)
             Made approx. 22 million this weekend as top-grossing movie - (tjsinclair)
         ..and another Weekly Standard-type 'exclusive' (new thread) - (Ashton)
         I agree with the concepts, but not the methods used by Moore - (orion) - (64)
             Norman, Norman - (Ashton) - (63)
                 Thus I say to you - (orion) - (62)
                     Oh, I do so wish to smack you, Norm - (Arkadiy) - (17)
                         Did you ever see Good Will Hunting? - (broomberg) - (16)
                             Re: Did you ever see Good Will Hunting? - (deSitter)
                             Not really - (orion) - (14)
                                 It is a matter of tunnel vision - (broomberg) - (13)
                                     Ironically, I disagree with you... - (ben_tilly) - (5)
                                         Figures - (broomberg) - (3)
                                             Depends how you define economics - (ben_tilly) - (2)
                                                 The economic/philosophy term of "Utility" comes to mind. - (ChrisR) - (1)
                                                     Exactly - (ben_tilly)
                                         Sadly, I find your disagreement implicitly supports - (Ashton)
                                     All I ever asked - (orion) - (3)
                                         Hehe. Impeach Bush? - (broomberg)
                                         Logic is the path from assumptions to conclusion - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                                             Verily I say, thou hast the Patience of Job.. or was that - (Ashton)
                                     I consider that a cmplement in a way - (orion) - (2)
                                         Enjoy - (broomberg)
                                         BTW - (n3jja)
                     That analysis assumes that Saudis are... - (ben_tilly) - (43)
                         Very well said -NT - (deSitter)
                         Nothing economics can't explain - (ChrisR) - (13)
                             For some value of "explain" -NT - (ben_tilly) - (2)
                                 Not to belittle economics too much... - (ChrisR) - (1)
                                     ie.. it Is hard to belittle Econ____too much :-j -NT - (Ashton)
                             Yet ironically - (orion) - (9)
                                 Twitterpatted - (ChrisR) - (6)
                                     ObPedanticSpellingFlame: twitterpated, twitterpate! -NT - (jake123) - (1)
                                         Rediculous!!! -NT - (ChrisR)
                                     Easy - (deSitter) - (2)
                                         Either that, or make the leaf the new form of currency - (ChrisR) - (1)
                                             No - (deSitter)
                                     Bzzzz, sorry. You don't know jack about the Phillips curve. (new thread) - (orion)
                                 Norm throw all that crap out the window - (boxley) - (1)
                                     Sorry I'd rather earn a college degree - (orion)
                         Explain this behavior then - (orion) - (27)
                             The explanation is simple... - (ChrisR) - (5)
                                 Interesting theory - (orion) - (4)
                                     I see college has brought out your natural sophistry - (deSitter) - (1)
                                         Of course - (orion)
                                     Just look up the term you don't know - (ben_tilly)
                                     Big fish catch and release program. - (ChrisR)
                             you are missing a huge point - (boxley) - (18)
                                 The same way we trapped the French in the 1930's then? - (orion) - (17)
                                     where do you get this crap norm? - (boxley) - (16)
                                         Norm is at least half-right on this one - (ben_tilly) - (15)
                                             Been some stress through the years - (ChrisR) - (1)
                                                 True, but that doesn't make me much happier - (ben_tilly)
                                             banking panic had NOTHING to do with gold - (boxley) - (10)
                                                 You'd be wrong on the history of that - (ben_tilly) - (9)
                                                     try horses mouth - (boxley) - (8)
                                                         And how does this contradict what I said? - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                                                             thought you were promoting gold as a cause, not effect - (boxley)
                                                         Yet again you are wrong - (orion) - (5)
                                                             ah, the educated fucktard raises his snout and brays - (boxley) - (1)
                                                                 Apples and Oranges - (orion)
                                                             Yeah, and who pays for it? - (inthane-chan) - (2)
                                                                 {{Shhhh!}} we're not sposed to know that. Bad for 'lections -NT - (Ashton)
                                                                 I know that - (orion)
                                             Perhaps Norm is all right? ;) - (orion) - (1)
                                                 Thank you, I learned something from that - (ben_tilly)
                             Blah - gotta hit STOP faster. - (Ashton)
                             Norman, Norman -n (new thread) - (Ashton)

Time for a tasty, tangy treat!
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