IWETHEY v. 0.3.0 | TODO
1,095 registered users | 0 active users | 0 LpH | Statistics
Login | Create New User
IWETHEY Banner

Welcome to IWETHEY!

New you are missing a huge point
The damage that they could potentially do is unbelievable, what would happen to our economy if they pulled their mega-billions out of their investments. I ask you, when 500 billion or more is sold in stock in the market, what happens to the market?
what vehicle could they put it in that wouldnt tank faster than "our" stock market. They have a vested interest in the american economy, we have them trapped by their investments the same way Putin has us trapped by the outstanding debts owed the west.
thanx,
bill
Anchorage AK: House for sale 3 bed 1 bath 1440 sq feet huge lot near Cheney Lake 175K FSBO 813.273.3518
I wondered what Darwinian moment had to effect itself before we devolved from children flying paper flags in the sky to half formed creatures thundering in a wall of horns down the road to Roncevaux. James Lee Burke
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New The same way we trapped the French in the 1930's then?
When they pulled their gold reserve notes out of our bank, and caused a banking panic?



"What's the use of saving life when you see what you do with it?" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"




[link|http://www.xormad.com:4096/district268|I am from District 268].
New where do you get this crap norm?
Until 1970's when Nixon allowed the dollar to go off the gold standard that crap was sitting under fort knox backing the money supply. The frogs could redeem every bar in the plant which would affect the governments ability to borrow but not impact banks in either the reserve or the street in any way at all. Only the US government could trade in gold. Banks, people or frogs could only trade with washingto and they kept the price artificially low pegged at about $30 troy.
thanx,
bill
Anchorage AK: House for sale 3 bed 1 bath 1440 sq feet huge lot near Cheney Lake 175K FSBO 813.273.3518
I wondered what Darwinian moment had to effect itself before we devolved from children flying paper flags in the sky to half formed creatures thundering in a wall of horns down the road to Roncevaux. James Lee Burke
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New Norm is at least half-right on this one
I have never heard anything about the French being responsible, but in 1933 the USA had a banking panic, leading to Roosevelt closing the banks from March 5-13, and imposing restrictions on trading gold.

From then until Nixon lifted the gold standard, the USA might have been nominally on the gold standard, but for many practical purposes was not.

The failure of the banking system also lead to the creation of many kinds of regulatory protection for the banking system to avoid it possibly failing again. Those protections worked but they have slowly eroded over time to what is pretty much a confidence game at this point. Unless the trend reverses, eventually things will weaken to the point where we'll have another bank collapse. I'd give good odds on this happening in our lifetimes.

This is based on the principle that people don't get motivated to act on something until they perceive a direct threat. Given that the banking system has not collapsed in most people's lifetimes, there will be no perceived threat that a collapse could occur until it does. Therefore I'd predict continued structural erosion and no significant corrections until that collapse. Given how much trouble I think that it is in now, how little protection is left, and how regularly banks used to collapse, I'm not an optimist.

I'd close with "Cheers", but Scott gets annoyed at my juxtaposing depressing thoughts like this with attempts to make people happy...

Glumly,
Ben
To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act
- [link|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20|Nebraska Supreme Court]
New Been some stress through the years
Petro Dollars. S&L crisis. Third world debt crisis. Enron. Junk Bonds. 9/11. etc...

So far it's hung in there and in some odd ways these stresses on the system have helped. But it's really not been a totally smooth path.
New True, but that doesn't make me much happier
The legal constraints on behaviour that used to provide protection have been lifted. Many disasters have been rescued in a series of spectacular bail-outs. There is a moral hazard involved in repeatedly rescuing investors - it encourages them to take even bigger risks. But if the risks become too much larger, a bailout may become impossible.

Furthermore the USA as a whole has a whole series of structural economic problems, for instance the persistent large current trade deficits that add to (what I think is) the unsustainable debt levels that we'll have to pay eventually.

Cheers,
Ben
To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act
- [link|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20|Nebraska Supreme Court]
New banking panic had NOTHING to do with gold
it was simply consumer confidence failure due to heavy overlending by the banks with no controls. Typically a bank only holds cash reserves at the 1-3% level(talking single banks of the time not chain banks.)A panic ensued when a customer couldnt withdraw cash immediately. This ensued into panic which escalated nationwide. No froggishness involved.
thanx,
bill
Anchorage AK: House for sale 3 bed 1 bath 1440 sq feet huge lot near Cheney Lake 175K FSBO 813.273.3518
I wondered what Darwinian moment had to effect itself before we devolved from children flying paper flags in the sky to half formed creatures thundering in a wall of horns down the road to Roncevaux. James Lee Burke
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New You'd be wrong on the history of that
On the tail of the banking crisis, Roosevelt issued [link|http://www.the-privateer.com/1933-gold-confiscation.html|http://www.the-priva...confiscation.html]. This resolved one of the major problems that the USA was having, that people were taking advantage of the difference between the cost of gold and US dollars to convert the latter into the former and move it out of the country.

Therefore, whether or not the fundamental banking problem was caused by gold, the banking crisis had a lot to do with gold. Specifically it caused a lot f gold-related problems that the US government had to deal with. And the government took extreme actions to resolve them, see [link|http://www.the-privateer.com/gold2.html|http://www.the-privateer.com/gold2.html] for a short list.

Incidentally based on that list, I strongly suspect that Norm got his history mixed up. (Shocking, I know.) Yes, there were big problems involving the French and gold, but they related to why the USA officially went off the gold standard several decades later, and had nothing to do with the banking failures.

Cheers,
Ben
To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act
- [link|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20|Nebraska Supreme Court]
New try horses mouth
[link|http://www.multied.com/documents/Bankingcrisis.html|http://www.multied.c...ankingcrisis.html]
What, then, happened during the last few days of February and the first few days of March? Because of undermined confidence on the part of the public, there was a general rush by a large portion of our population to turn bank deposits into currency or gold-a rush so great that the soundest banks couldn't get enough currency to meet the demand. The reason for this was that on the spur of the moment it was, of course, impossible to sell perfectly sound assets of a bank and convert them into cash except at panic prices far below their real value.
into cash or gold, not specifically gold. They wanted money under mattresses instead of in the bank. This could happen today. The above quote is from a radio address by the president.
thanx,
bill
Anchorage AK: House for sale 3 bed 1 bath 1440 sq feet huge lot near Cheney Lake 175K FSBO 813.273.3518
I wondered what Darwinian moment had to effect itself before we devolved from children flying paper flags in the sky to half formed creatures thundering in a wall of horns down the road to Roncevaux. James Lee Burke
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New And how does this contradict what I said?
I didn't say that gold-related issues caused the banking crisis. I said that the banking crisis caused the US government to run into a lot of problems around the gold standard. Which they resolved with extraordinary measures, including confiscating all of the gold that they could reasonably get.

In other words there was a big connection between gold and the banking crisis. But gold problems were an effect, not a cause.

Explanations by Roosevelt to the general public of the causes of the banking crisis cannot contradict my assertion. Furthermore Roosevelt's actions demonstrated that the gold problem was considered both present and urgent.

Cheers,
Ben
To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act
- [link|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20|Nebraska Supreme Court]
New thought you were promoting gold as a cause, not effect
yes, I can agree with that.
thanx,
bill
Anchorage AK: House for sale 3 bed 1 bath 1440 sq feet huge lot near Cheney Lake 175K FSBO 813.273.3518
I wondered what Darwinian moment had to effect itself before we devolved from children flying paper flags in the sky to half formed creatures thundering in a wall of horns down the road to Roncevaux. James Lee Burke
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New Yet again you are wrong
Does the initials FDIC mean anything to you? The government backs up bank accounts up to 100,000 US dollars. Bush wants to raise that to 300,000 US dollars.

Why would people do a bank panic now if the government will cover them up to 100,000 in their account? Unless they feel the government won't honor the FDIC insurance?

Please try learning some facts first before you post.



"What's the use of saving life when you see what you do with it?" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"




[link|http://www.xormad.com:4096/district268|I am from District 268].
New ah, the educated fucktard raises his snout and brays
[link|http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:i6QWABxoBb4J:www.ots.treas.gov/docs/r.cfm%3F87069.pdf+recent+bank+run&hl=en&ie=UTF-8|http://216.239.39.10...un&hl=en&ie=UTF-8]
school aparently has enlarged your ignorance so you may spout more misinformation than ever before.
twitfiltered.
thanx,
bill
Anchorage AK: House for sale 3 bed 1 bath 1440 sq feet huge lot near Cheney Lake 175K FSBO 813.273.3518
I wondered what Darwinian moment had to effect itself before we devolved from children flying paper flags in the sky to half formed creatures thundering in a wall of horns down the road to Roncevaux. James Lee Burke
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New Apples and Oranges
"This avoided the much higher losses that would have resulted had the FDIC been forced to sell these loans at fire-sale prices out of a receivership."

So I am talking about checking and saving accounts, and you are talking about loans. Big difference there. Nice way to change the subject.



"What's the use of saving life when you see what you do with it?" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"




[link|http://www.xormad.com:4096/district268|I am from District 268].
New Yeah, and who pays for it?
Taxpayers.

So, if the banks fail, and we have to compensate everybody who has up to $100,000 in the bank, it comes out of THE FEDERAL BUDGET.

Think about it.
WANTED: Precognitive Telepath for adventuring Partnership. You know where to apply.
New {{Shhhh!}} we're not sposed to know that. Bad for 'lections
New I know that
also Reagan put in the federal budget some billions to try and save the Savings and Loan companies that made very risky loans.

So I ask you, which is better?

A> Use taxpayer money to bail out banks and cover deposits.

B> Let the bank fail and don't use any money to cover deposits.



"What's the use of saving life when you see what you do with it?" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"




[link|http://www.xormad.com:4096/district268|I am from District 268].
New Perhaps Norm is all right? ;)
Read it from the Fed:

[link|http://www.federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/speeches/2004/200403022/default.htm|http://www.federalre...03022/default.htm]

"Other countries' policies also contributed to a global monetary tightening during 1928 and 1929. For example, after France returned to the gold standard in 1928, it built up its gold reserves significantly, at the expense of other countries. The outflows of gold to France forced other countries to reduce their money supplies and to raise interest rates. Speculative attacks on currencies also became frequent as the Depression worsened, leading central banks to raise interest rates, much like the Federal Reserve did in 1931."

So France, at that time, had a habit of turning gold treasury notes into gold. France had money in the Federal bank, and guess what they did? It is debateable if this caused a panic or at least was a factor in causing a panic.



"What's the use of saving life when you see what you do with it?" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"




[link|http://www.xormad.com:4096/district268|I am from District 268].
New Thank you, I learned something from that
So France apparently did play a role in creating the monetary crisis that lead to the Great Depression. Live and learn.

However two major things do not fit the parallel that you're trying to draw betweeen France then and the Saudis now.

First of all, France had no idea that it was going to cause the effect that it would cause. Unlike the leadership of Saudi Arabia who presumably do understand what destroying the US economy would do to them. Unless you know that pulling the trigger will result in personal injury, the real threat of holding a gun to your head is not a deterrent from pulling the trigger.

Of course that is key for your thesis - if France knowingly acted against its own economic self-interests then it would destroy your thesis that people can be relied on not to knowingly do that. They acted, but they didn't know so it isn't a counter-example.

More importantly, France's actions came from motivations that bear no useful parallel to the motivations of current Saudi leaders. But this is a point which you refuse to acknowledge, and therefore cannot be the basis of useful conversation.

Cheers,
Ben
To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act
- [link|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20|Nebraska Supreme Court]
     a review of 911 by Matt Labash - (boxley) - (105)
         I shocked, shocked I tell you. - (mmoffitt)
         At least Moore's honest about his craft - (ChrisR) - (6)
             Moore? Honest? He had disclaimers? tell me moore -NT - (boxley) - (5)
                 He admits his craft has a purpose - (ChrisR) - (4)
                     It's a polemic - (deSitter)
                     Conservative AM talk radio station this morning - (lincoln) - (2)
                         As Ebert pointed out.. - (deSitter)
                         National Geographic has a POV - (ChrisR)
         Screw that. Where's *your* review? - (Silverlock) - (24)
             I will do my own review - (boxley) - (20)
                 What's your local theater? - (Silverlock) - (19)
                     problem, how do I explain to 5 other people - (boxley) - (18)
                         I'll donate another ticket for you... -NT - (ben_tilly) - (3)
                             guys, ITS A FRIGGIN MOVIE!!! not the second coming sheesh! -NT - (boxley) - (2)
                                 Just trying to reduce the number of your excuses -NT - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                                     no excuses, I will watch it in the same way I watch all - (boxley)
                         Whatever. - (Silverlock)
                         I'll donate another ticket for you... That's 3. - (Ashton) - (12)
                             One from me, that's 4 - (broomberg) - (10)
                                 ROAD TRIP!!! -NT - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                     Thou sayest Well, - (Ashton)
                                 That works for me... - (ben_tilly) - (7)
                                     Seconded - (drewk) - (6)
                                         plastic pint bottles and cargo pants would work -NT - (boxley)
                                         Re: Seconded - (deSitter) - (1)
                                             Spent a whole night playing piano drunk once. - (admin)
                                         Sheesh. - (admin) - (2)
                                             A Fair question - (Ashton) - (1)
                                                 See the headlines now - (boxley)
                             wont be voting there, patriot and ashcroft still in place -NT - (boxley)
             Well, here's one - (inthane-chan) - (2)
                 you didnt use a debit card to pay for the tickey did you? -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                     What, you think I'm an idiot? - (inthane-chan)
         Tip from a Friend on what to do after seeing it. - (mmoffitt) - (3)
             Citoyens! Aux barricades! -NT - (deSitter)
             Re: Tip from a Friend on what to do after seeing it. - (deSitter)
             That is good -NT - (boxley)
         another review of Fahrenheit 9/11 - (Ashton) - (1)
             Made approx. 22 million this weekend as top-grossing movie - (tjsinclair)
         ..and another Weekly Standard-type 'exclusive' (new thread) - (Ashton)
         I agree with the concepts, but not the methods used by Moore - (orion) - (64)
             Norman, Norman - (Ashton) - (63)
                 Thus I say to you - (orion) - (62)
                     Oh, I do so wish to smack you, Norm - (Arkadiy) - (17)
                         Did you ever see Good Will Hunting? - (broomberg) - (16)
                             Re: Did you ever see Good Will Hunting? - (deSitter)
                             Not really - (orion) - (14)
                                 It is a matter of tunnel vision - (broomberg) - (13)
                                     Ironically, I disagree with you... - (ben_tilly) - (5)
                                         Figures - (broomberg) - (3)
                                             Depends how you define economics - (ben_tilly) - (2)
                                                 The economic/philosophy term of "Utility" comes to mind. - (ChrisR) - (1)
                                                     Exactly - (ben_tilly)
                                         Sadly, I find your disagreement implicitly supports - (Ashton)
                                     All I ever asked - (orion) - (3)
                                         Hehe. Impeach Bush? - (broomberg)
                                         Logic is the path from assumptions to conclusion - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                                             Verily I say, thou hast the Patience of Job.. or was that - (Ashton)
                                     I consider that a cmplement in a way - (orion) - (2)
                                         Enjoy - (broomberg)
                                         BTW - (n3jja)
                     That analysis assumes that Saudis are... - (ben_tilly) - (43)
                         Very well said -NT - (deSitter)
                         Nothing economics can't explain - (ChrisR) - (13)
                             For some value of "explain" -NT - (ben_tilly) - (2)
                                 Not to belittle economics too much... - (ChrisR) - (1)
                                     ie.. it Is hard to belittle Econ____too much :-j -NT - (Ashton)
                             Yet ironically - (orion) - (9)
                                 Twitterpatted - (ChrisR) - (6)
                                     ObPedanticSpellingFlame: twitterpated, twitterpate! -NT - (jake123) - (1)
                                         Rediculous!!! -NT - (ChrisR)
                                     Easy - (deSitter) - (2)
                                         Either that, or make the leaf the new form of currency - (ChrisR) - (1)
                                             No - (deSitter)
                                     Bzzzz, sorry. You don't know jack about the Phillips curve. (new thread) - (orion)
                                 Norm throw all that crap out the window - (boxley) - (1)
                                     Sorry I'd rather earn a college degree - (orion)
                         Explain this behavior then - (orion) - (27)
                             The explanation is simple... - (ChrisR) - (5)
                                 Interesting theory - (orion) - (4)
                                     I see college has brought out your natural sophistry - (deSitter) - (1)
                                         Of course - (orion)
                                     Just look up the term you don't know - (ben_tilly)
                                     Big fish catch and release program. - (ChrisR)
                             you are missing a huge point - (boxley) - (18)
                                 The same way we trapped the French in the 1930's then? - (orion) - (17)
                                     where do you get this crap norm? - (boxley) - (16)
                                         Norm is at least half-right on this one - (ben_tilly) - (15)
                                             Been some stress through the years - (ChrisR) - (1)
                                                 True, but that doesn't make me much happier - (ben_tilly)
                                             banking panic had NOTHING to do with gold - (boxley) - (10)
                                                 You'd be wrong on the history of that - (ben_tilly) - (9)
                                                     try horses mouth - (boxley) - (8)
                                                         And how does this contradict what I said? - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                                                             thought you were promoting gold as a cause, not effect - (boxley)
                                                         Yet again you are wrong - (orion) - (5)
                                                             ah, the educated fucktard raises his snout and brays - (boxley) - (1)
                                                                 Apples and Oranges - (orion)
                                                             Yeah, and who pays for it? - (inthane-chan) - (2)
                                                                 {{Shhhh!}} we're not sposed to know that. Bad for 'lections -NT - (Ashton)
                                                                 I know that - (orion)
                                             Perhaps Norm is all right? ;) - (orion) - (1)
                                                 Thank you, I learned something from that - (ben_tilly)
                             Blah - gotta hit STOP faster. - (Ashton)
                             Norman, Norman -n (new thread) - (Ashton)

The Elvis Presley Dambusters Clock-Plate Of Tutankhamen
151 ms