Post #16,313
11/3/01 1:24:14 AM
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Re: I don't see
how this restores competition to the browser market or compensates Spyglass, Netscape, or any of the other victims of MS's tying practices."
The browser tying issue was remanded, then dropped.
Its got no penalty for cheating in the first place."
Again, the issue has been dropped, and even if it hadn't been, antitrust violations don't warrant punishment, just remedies.
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Post #16,327
11/3/01 8:54:41 AM
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Hmmm.... We could build a business model on this.....
If I understand the principle correctly, "antitrust violations don't warrant punishment, just remedies". So then, the model we can pursue is:
1) Leverage the huge mass of capital derived from previous antitrust violations to implement even more egregious violations thus increasing our hegemony.
2) When caught on the current antitrust violations, deny emphatically, and increase efforts on expanding the current project series. This allows us to fall back to the state of business where we were when we were finally caught on the current project, if a remedy says we have to give something back. If dragged out for some years, this allows us to maybe split the difference and fall back to a position of where we are a couple years after being caught.
3) Ignore the remedies. Deny accusations blindly. Claim misunderstandings (by others, of course). Buy political hacks. Try for sympathy due to jealousy. Suck up to CEOs, CFOs, and other PHBs who can sympathize with having the peasant masses trying to pull down their betters.
4) Consider remedies. Create new thread implementing stage 1 with a slightly different project, claiming that this is a self imposed remedy. Create a new thread implementing stage 1 with a different business scope (entertainment, security systems, communications supplier, ect.). Loop to 1. (note that new similar thread can be re-organized back into a single thread for efficiency if the prey^Wcustomers don\ufffdt bitch to DOJ.)
Not too shabby. Could make a buck or two out of this. And it is good for the economy. Really. Trust us on this.
Nah, not really. Nobody could be that cynical, could they? Nobody could have a DOJ that spineless, could they? I probably just need a couple beers out by the lake, away from this nonsense for a day or so.
Later,
Hugh
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Post #16,333
11/3/01 9:25:46 AM
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Re: Hmmm.... We could build a business model on this.....
Look, all I'm saying is that antitrust law apparently isn't enough to crush Microsoft the way some people here wanted them crushed. Now, I certainly don't know what the right thing is. Perhaps we need some new laws? Perhaps those who are thirsty for Microsoft's blood just need a good dose of reality?
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Post #16,345
11/3/01 11:20:03 AM
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On laws, reality, and perspective...
antitrust law apparently isn't enough to crush Microsoft the way some people here wanted them crushed
Hmmm... lessee now... There ARE antitrust laws to protect against behavior such as MS's. MS HAS been found guilty. This is a country where evading a few grand in taxes gets a stiffer jail term than killing somebody in a fit of drunken rage. MS business scams are in the billions of dollars; there should be punishment, if only for the poor slobs doing time for evading income tax. MS does not need to be crushed (well, probably not..) but they do need to be controlled.
Perhaps those who are thirsty for Microsoft's blood just need a good dose of reality?
Reality can depend on perspective. The charge of the Light Brigade was real. The guys brewing tea behind the cannons had one viewpoint, the guys sitting on the horses at the other end had another. Both were equally real.
Most of the anti-MS sentiment here comes from people who are angry at having to deal in their own professions, with MS arrogance, half-assed software, and 'Highlander' style business practices. This is a reality.
There is a lot of experience here and many are seeing our careers and futures turning bleak because of MS propogated garbage. Is it a reality that business can save tons by replacing expensive, experienced, employees with cheap amateurs and MS software? I don't think so, but a number of us are going to be hurting before the PHB's figure this out. What's the reality here? Shit happens? Shoulda been born rich?
Most of us are exposed to enough reality that hip waders just don't do it any more.
In all, this is a pretty reasonable community (ignoring a few occasional lapses... (could happen anywhere.. (mumble..)))
Regards,
Hugh\t
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Post #16,370
11/3/01 3:00:54 PM
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Re: On laws, reality, and perspective...
antitrust law apparently isn't enough to
crush Microsoft the way some people here wanted them crushed
Hmmm... lessee now... There ARE antitrust laws to protect against
behavior such as MS's. MS HAS been found guilty.
Agreed, but apparently it's a law that requires violators to face
forward-looking remedies instead of backward-looking punishment. If I'm right
about this - and I seem to be, given that the trial is still in its remedy
phase and no punishment phase has ever been scheduled - then what basis do
you have for demanding punishment? I'd really like to see a list of Microsoft's
violations for which you think the law's prescribed solution - a remedy - is
insufficient.
MS business scams are in the billions of dollars [...]
I'd like to know what you're referring to here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but
a scam is a fraudulent business scheme. Has Microsoft even been accused of such
a thing? Please list the established instances of outright fraud that have
netted Microsoft billions of dollars.
MS does not need to be crushed (well, probably not..) but they do
need to be controlled.
You may be right, but how should they be controlled? Could it be that there
are simply no laws currently on the books to effectively deal with the Microsoft
"problem", whatever that may be? Many people are now accusing the government of
having sold out; some are calling the settlement an antitrust enforcement
failure. I'm merely suggesting a different possibility - that the Microsoft
"problem" may be something new for which no existing law provides a good
solution, just like the monopoly problem was 120 years ago. Wouldn't it be more
productive to explore that possibility instead of mindlessly lashing out at the
government?
Perhaps those who are thirsty for
Microsoft's blood just need a good dose of reality?
Reality can depend on perspective. [...]
Most of the anti-MS sentiment here comes from people who are angry at
having to deal in their own professions, with MS arrogance, half-assed
software, and 'Highlander' style business practices. This is a reality.
You're absolutely right; reality does depend on perspective. I assure you
that there are plenty of people out there who actually prefer to work
with Microsoft's products and technologies. Could it be that some of the folks
here have trouble separating their opinions from reality?
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Post #16,373
11/3/01 4:02:29 PM
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Unawareness kills.
Were you looking for some kEwL d0odZ perhaps? Wrong venue. Try MSNBC or EZ. As apparently you are unaware, while trotting out trite slogans sans an iota of research:
This 'group' coalesced beginning >6 years ago, around the original (working) InfoWorld forums - way back when IW/IWE were making the transition from having been a valuable source of honest technical review to ... mere regurgatation of MS press releases, 'reviewing' of non-existent announced vaporware VS shipping products, and a host of other atrocities.
There are professional folks here who use virtually all platforms, and are bloody well aware of the deficiencies and much of the political whys of each. There are quite diverse views here, with consensus perhaps on only one principle: BS will be ferreted out; for the pure Goodness of the exercise.
Do some homework, read what's already here + on the former location -
[link|http://pub13.ezboard.com/biwethey|EZ-Board]
if you really want to get past naive press-release doggerel and the stuff of Astroturf (perhaps you don't know *that* word either). There's also an archive of much of the original exchanges at IW, being tabulated - as there is among that all technical tutorials and info which some find valuable, for not being time-related.
Lazy? try aaxnet.com for just one site with one person's prof. 'take'.
Then, if you have a \ufffd possibly someone will debate it. (I don't presume what your personal acumen is, nor that we've seen the best of it.) Working minds are always welcome. Slogans tend to get dissed. Argument is preferred over contradiction - Monty Python lives. Too.
Ashton
forward-looking remedies.. Indeed!
crunchy frogs, too.
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Post #16,385
11/3/01 5:50:53 PM
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Re: Unawareness kills.
Were you looking for some kEwL d0odZ perhaps? Wrong venue. Try MSNBC or EZ. As apparently you are unaware, while trotting out trite slogans sans an
iota of research:
No need to sell yourself short, Ashton. You and your buddies are quite the kEwL d0odZ, and only by carefully observing this group did I learn that.
This 'group' coalesced beginning >6 years ago, around the original (working) InfoWorld forums - way back when IW/IWE were making the transition from having been a valuable source of honest technical review to ... mere regurgatation of MS press releases, 'reviewing' of non-existent announced vaporware VS shipping products, and a host of other atrocities.
Wow, you're blowing my mind with the history lesson, d0od. Will there be a
pop quiz tomorrow?
There are quite diverse views here, with consensus perhaps on only one principle: BS will be ferreted out; for the pure Goodness of the exercise.
May I assume then that you're the chief ferret?
Do some homework, read what's already here + on the former location -
[link|http://pub13.ezboard.com/biwethey|EZ-Board]
if you really want to get past naive press-release doggerel and the stuff of Astroturf (perhaps you don't know *that* word either). There's also an archive of much of the original exchanges at IW, being tabulated - as there is among that all technical tutorials and info which some find valuable, for not being time-related.
Ooh, "naive press-release doggerel and the stuff of Astroturf". If I didn't
know better, I'd call that a trite slogan.
Lazy? try aaxnet.com for just one site with one person's prof. 'take'.
Thanks, I checked it out. Pretty standard quasi-religious zealotry, probably
somewhere around the 40th Slashdot Percentile.
Then, if you have a \ufffd possibly someone will debate it.
Either that, or they'll completely ignore my \ufffd and reply with a
generic "don't bother us until you get some schoolin'" form letter.
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Post #16,638
11/5/01 2:52:59 PM
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Strong disagreement on your /. estimate
Your typical slashbot either has never really worked (often because they are kids of college students) or else has worked, but haven't been anywhere near the actual running of the business.
Now Andrew Grygus may be a bit colorful, but he has been running his own consulting business for many years. He is very aware of the needs of running a business for the simple reason that he has done so for many years. Furthermore his customers are other businesses, and his livelyhood depends on his understanding their needs as well.
So I suggest that you read him more closely. You should find that he isn't blowing smoke for the sake of blowing smoke. He really does know what he is talking about. Your average slashbot is recognizable in large part for their inability to get beyond stereotypical foaming to see why things are happening, and your average slashbot does not understand either the history or technical details. Andrew makes neither mistake.
As for the "kewl doodz" crack, Ashton's point is that we aren't a bunch of script kiddies in here, whining about the latest "in" thing. Most of us are professionals. We may BS about general topics, but when it comes to our areas of technical areas expertise, we are very competent. An area of competency for me is [link|http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node=tilly|Perl]. An area of competency for Andrew Grygus is what a small business needs to know about for its IT needs.
Cheers,
Ben
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Post #16,372
11/3/01 4:01:41 PM
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Sorry, wrong.
Antitrust violations carry a tripled damages clause.
Punishment is very much a part of antitrust law.
Regards,
-scott anderson
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Post #16,379
11/3/01 5:15:43 PM
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Really?
Then why does this trial have a remedy phase? Why has there never been any mention of a penalty phase, a punishment phase, or a sentencing phase? Why has Microsoft been given the right to participate in the process of hammering out a solution\ufffd- and even the right to try to settle the case\ufffd- after they were found to have violated antitrust law? Why is this a civil action rather than a criminal one?
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Post #16,384
11/3/01 5:49:57 PM
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What are you talking about?
Then why does this trial have a remedy phase? Why has there never been any mention of a penalty phase, a punishment phase, or a sentencing phase? The remedy phase IS the sentencing phase. Microsoft has been found guilty of a civil infraction. Their punishment IS the remedy. Why has Microsoft been given the right to participate in the process of hammering out a solution - and even the right to try to settle the case - after they were found to have violated antitrust law? Parties in civil cases are always allowed to settle out of court. If they do not settle out of court, the court is allowed to assess damages upon the defendant if they lose. Why is this a civil action rather than a criminal one? Because antitrust law is part of the civil code (or whatever the phrase is). What does this have to do with anything? Have you never heard of damages being assessed in civil cases? WTF were the OJ civil trial damages? Damages CAN be assessed in this case. Any number of questions you ask out of ignorance of that fact are immaterial. In fact, the biggest problem MS may face are the ongoing civil suits that are sure to follow if the DOJ folds, because as I said damages are tripled in antitrust cases. IANAL, etc. Regards,
-scott anderson
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Post #16,446
11/4/01 9:35:30 AM
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Re: What are you talking about?
Scott, thanks for your interesting reply.
Then why does this trial have a remedy phase? Why has there never been
any mention of a penalty phase, a punishment phase, or a sentencing phase?
The remedy phase IS the sentencing phase. Microsoft has been found
guilty of a civil infraction. Their punishment IS the remedy. [...]
Parties in civil cases are always allowed to settle out of court. If
they do not settle out of court, the court is allowed to assess damages upon
the defendant if they lose.
Hmmm... I thought there was a difference, at least in the case of antitrust,
between remedies and punishment. There is certainly a huge difference in the
common usage of those words. Maybe that's why I'm puzzled as to why so many
people were expecting punishment during the trial's remedy phase, and are
now outraged at the lack of punishment in the deal. Is this one of those
artificial criminal/civil guilty/liable distinctions we all learned about during
the OJ case? In any case, can the government plausibly claim that it was
damaged by Microsoft's violations?
Why is this a civil action rather than a criminal one?
Because antitrust law is part of the civil code (or whatever the phrase
is). What does this have to do with anything?
Well, if you look around, you'll see lots of people calling Microsoft, its
executives, and now even DoJ officials criminals. The question they often
raise is, "Since when do criminals get to settle after they've been found
guilty?" Would you then call that an ignorant question? Should it be rephrased
as "Since when do civil infractors get to settle after they've been found
liable?"
Damages CAN be assessed in this case. Any number of questions you ask out of ignorance of that fact are immaterial. In fact, the biggest problem MS may face are the ongoing civil suits that are sure to follow if the DOJ folds, because as I said damages are tripled in antitrust cases.
I understand. Most of the rulings that survived appeal seem to have to do
with OEM contracts. It'll be interesting to see how many OEMs end up suing
Microsoft. Do you think AOL/Netscape will sue Microsoft over "code commingling"?
Will ISVs sue Microsoft over their apparent attempts to deceive them regarding
Java?
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Post #16,650
11/5/01 3:42:12 PM
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A "remedy"
is like a cure - something you use to put right what's gone wrong.
I see tremendous parallels between MS and Standard Oil. The key difference is that judges of the day had the fortitude to break Standard Oil into over 40 different competing companies. Somewhat akin to the state of things before Rockefeller aggregated all the market choke points to his favor.
Imagine the oil and shipping business scenario had the US Gov simply put in a couple watch-dogs to make sure that Standard Oil didn't abuse their enormous market power again.
It would have been wholly ineffective.
Rather like the current proposed settlement.
The remedy is to return market forces to the computer industry. Bust MS up into lots of little companies. Deprive them of ownership of MS Explorer or any other web browser.
With XP, MS is moving aggressively towards gaining strangleholds on music distribution, internet services of various types, software distribution, digital photography, and other markets. Their new licensing strategy could only have been designed by a monopolist looking to cash in.
Any real remedy will chop microsoft into bits no larger than the size it was when it began licensing its software to OEM's.
This isn't doing it.
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Post #16,668
11/5/01 4:29:01 PM
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Re: A "remedy"
I see tremendous parallels between MS and Standard Oil. The key
difference is that judges of the day had the fortitude to break Standard Oil
into over 40 different competing companies.
Standard Oil? Is that that repulsive profit monger that took the price of
kerosene from $6.00/gallon to $0.06/gallon? That selfish monopolist that had no
less than 147 domestic oil-refining competitors at trial time? That horrible
threat to consumers that hugely expanded production and availability while
improving quality and dropping prices? That unstoppable behemoth whose market
share at trial time was 64% and in decline for over a decade? Yeah, I can see
why those bastards had to be punished.
The remedy is to return market forces to the computer industry.
What do you call Sun, IBM, AOL, Oracle, Apple, etc.?
Bust MS up into lots of little companies.
Based on what, your desire to hurt Bill Gates' feelings?
Deprive them of ownership of MS Explorer or any other web browser.
Are you nuts? Based on what, the product tying claim the appeals court
remanded and the plaintiff dropped?
With XP, MS is moving aggressively towards gaining strangleholds on
music distribution,
You mean I won't be able to buy a CD or download an MP3 in a few months?
internet services of various types,
You mean my grandma's AOL is about to go away?
software distribution,
Please elaborate.
digital photography, [...]
Hey, if MacOS and Linux come with image editors, why can't Windows?
Any real remedy will chop Microsoft into bits no larger than the size it
was when it began licensing its software to OEM's.
Christ, why not just bomb the freaking campus? Honestly Todd, you're making
no sense at all. Show me the appeal-tested violation that even remotely
justifies breakup (and please don't bother responding with the "code
commingling" nonsense).
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Post #16,696
11/5/01 5:06:58 PM
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Totally OT
Squidley,
I don't recall seeing you around here before - could you do us all a favor and drop by the Water Cooler, and leave a little note about who you are? Kinda hard to carry on an argument with somebody that you don't know anything about... ^_^
And a fresh voice is always welcome, even if we don't necessarily agree with you.
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Post #16,756
11/5/01 9:18:16 PM
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ya mean ya dont know :)
tshirt front "born to die before I get old"
thshirt back "fscked another one didnja?"
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Post #16,806
11/6/01 1:05:25 AM
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Well he sure ain't DeSitter...
He hasn't started calling us all underevolved maggots that can barely comprehend his massive intellect.
Actually, I was expecting him to suddenly burst into "Here I am, brain the size of a planet..."
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Post #16,819
11/6/01 8:30:38 AM
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look at the name and member our trusted friend and snak sig
tshirt front "born to die before I get old"
thshirt back "fscked another one didnja?"
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Post #16,831
11/6/01 10:16:09 AM
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Doesn't seem like a match to me....
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Post #16,848
11/6/01 12:11:34 PM
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Concur
This is something new and frightening... in a *good* way.
Peter
Shill For Hire
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
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Post #16,706
11/5/01 5:17:49 PM
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Could you be more specific about your views?
Hi,
You've been very good at playing "devil's advocate" here, but I don't think you've given your own views on what should be done with MS.
If you're interested in my views, you can read some of them [link|http://pub13.ezboard.com/fiwetheyfrm117.showMessage?topicID=616.topic&index=6|here], and [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=7193|here], and a Google search will turn up many others.
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #16,829
11/6/01 9:49:27 AM
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Re: Could you be more specific about your views?
I have no idea what (if anything) should be done about Microsoft. I'm not a lawyer, nor am I an economist. I refuse to run with the lynchmob, however.
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Post #16,852
11/6/01 12:41:43 PM
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So now we know
You have no opinion on what's right, but you're quite sure we're all wrong.
So now we know you're a spineless troll.
There's no point in arguing with you - you have no position other than the opposite of the person you engage.
If this were a discussion about OO programming, I'd peg you as Bryce.
I don't much care for shadow boxing.
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Post #16,861
11/6/01 1:27:38 PM
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Re: So now we know
You have no opinion on what's right, but you're quite sure we're all
wrong.
Well, you have to admit that history doesn't paint a very pretty picture of
lynch mobs.
So now we know you're a spineless troll.
Todd, please try to be a little more sensitive. For all you know, I could
have been born without a spine, or had my spine removed out of medical
necessity. I suppose you think all spineless people are trolls?
There's no point in arguing with you - you have no position other than
the opposite of the person you engage.
So you'd rather argue with someone who agrees with you?
If this were a discussion about OO programming, I'd peg you as Bryce.
Yuck. I'd much rather talk about OOLALA programming.
I don't much care for shadow boxing.
OK, how about you on air guitar and me on air drums (or vice versa)?
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Post #16,886
11/6/01 2:49:08 PM
|
Why bother?
You still haven't backed up your previous troll with citations to real facts.
At the risk of borrowing from a famous python skit - contradiction isn't arguing.
As far as your lynch mob characterization - its a public outcry of dissatisfaction from the victims - of which I am most certainly one of multiple counts.
I want justice and I don't see it in the proposed settlement.
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Post #16,724
11/5/01 6:03:01 PM
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Who the fuck is this...
...arsehole, Ross under a new alias again or what?
Christian R. Conrad
The Man Who Knows Fucking Everything
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Post #16,823
11/6/01 9:02:57 AM
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Re: Who the fuck is this...
Honey, here's all you need to know:
Name: Syndee Lou Quidley
Measurements: 44-22-36
Turn-ons: men who demand background checks before having a conversation
Turn-offs: Bill Gates (the megalomaniacal, genuinely evil house cat that terrorizes my trailer park).
And you, Sweetie?
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Post #16,832
11/6/01 10:19:51 AM
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She know CRC thats fer sure:)
tshirt front "born to die before I get old"
thshirt back "fscked another one didnja?"
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Post #16,846
11/6/01 12:06:13 PM
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ROFLMAO!
Ouch!
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Post #16,847
11/6/01 12:09:37 PM
|
Woohoo!
Our very first ZIWT romance!
*does the happy dance*
Peter
Shill For Hire
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
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Post #16,926
11/6/01 4:00:29 PM
|
I get the picture
You are good (examples above and elsewhere) at snide remarks.
But you are rather weak when it comes to providing real content, digesting material, or coming up with a real opinion.
In short you are acting like a typical troll, who confuses being snide with being profound. You are admittedly rather more competent at trolling than your average wannabe, but that doesn't improve the lack of content.
I would appreciate it if you either stop trolling or amuse yourself elsewhere. I personally prefer people who discuss their opinions to people aiming for the greatest content-free come-backs ever seen. It matters more that you are willing and able to discuss why you believe what you believe than it does that I agree with you. (In fact I prefer people who disagree with me - I am more likely to learn something from them.)
Cheers,
Ben
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Post #16,938
11/6/01 4:15:33 PM
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I didn't.. can you forward? :)
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Post #16,946
11/6/01 4:25:10 PM
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Ha!
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Post #16,976
11/6/01 4:56:55 PM
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Well it is unsigned...
But try [link|http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame29.html|here]...
Cheers,
Ben
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Post #17,005
11/6/01 6:03:04 PM
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Re: I get the picture
You are good (examples above and elsewhere) at snide remarks.
Thanks, I think.
But you are rather weak when it comes to providing real content,
Alas, my content will probably never measure up to CRConrad's seminal "Who
the fuck is this arsehole?" ([link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=16724|link]). So be it; in the immortal words of Dirty Harry, "A girl's got to know her limitations." [paraphrased].
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Post #17,033
11/6/01 6:56:35 PM
|
You probably think you were flamed by Christian?
That is just his style. For a random instance, take [link|http://pub13.ezboard.com/fiwetheygeneralqa.showMessage?topicID=213.topic&index=2|this piece of advice].
But while from his writing style you wouldn't know that English is his third language, get talking to him about Pascal, Finland, given where he works he probably knows Oracle pretty well by now, etc. If you look around, he contributes plenty of real content, though certainly not in every node.
As for you, that was a compliment. I pointed out that you were good at something. Similarly, Christian is good at swearing. Both of those are talents that I would prefer you don't exercise, but they are talents. And I find that people who can develop one talent, generally can develop another if they bother.
So if you want to actually contribute something constructive, welcome. Otherwise, please find some other group of people to bother.
Cheers,
Ben
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Post #17,044
11/6/01 7:43:31 PM
|
Tagging suggestions
You're coding HTML. Don't add the <p> and <br> tags. The forum software automatically adds breaks at each CR in your posted comment. I've complained about it to Scott ('admin') here, it hasn't changed yet. Another artifact is that various tags such as blockquote, ul, and ol, add copious amounts of whitespace. I also strongly encourage the use of a <blockquote type="cite"> tag rather than the /. style 'blockquote & italicize. Pixel alignment means that large blocks of italicized text are difficult to read online. By contrast, the bluelined (Mozilla, Netscape, and other browsers) quoted style of a blockquote block is quite easy to identify and remains clear to read . Note that I'm writing this set of text (beginning "I also strongly..." as one paragraph -- the breaks are all being inserted due to the tagging I employ. Peace. --
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?
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Post #17,089
11/7/01 3:06:25 AM
|
OK, so you aren't Ross...
...you're much too funny.
But yeah, I certainly DON'T feel obliged to talk to just any anonymous troll.
So if you want more replies from me (and this might go for more of us too), tell us just *who* the heck you are, in stead of just who you aren't.[*]
And if you *don't* want any more replies... then what the fuck are you doing here?!?
[*]: So far, I'm pretty sure you don't live in a trailer park, don't have a cat, and don't have the measurements 44-22-36... And I'd guess, from your writing style, that you aren't a gal at all, but a guy. But those are all negatives, not positives.
P.S: Thanks to Ben's link, something occurs to me: Think maybe this is our old buddy "Parallax Rebel"?
Christian R. Conrad
The Man Who Knows Fucking Everything
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Post #17,093
11/7/01 4:32:39 AM
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Maybe even a Da-_____________?
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Post #17,094
11/7/01 4:44:30 AM
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..."Dalek"?
(i.e, WTF are you talking about, Ash?)
Christian R. Conrad
The Man Who Knows Fucking Everything
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Post #17,095
11/7/01 5:03:41 AM
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Re: ..."Dalek"?
Maybe Dan. With a k in it too (!) Did'n wanna blow his cover so soon, but more I think about it, I doubt he'd pick this tack.
Hey.. miss O'Connor? from Oz - he of the linux-equipped Porsche, and his bot from N.I.C.E. (Nations Institute for Computing Excellence?) Twas a gas at the old IWE, an ersatz troll w/class.
Ashton
The Truth shall make you free
But first it will piss you off..
Gloria Steinem
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Post #16,737
11/5/01 7:29:58 PM
11/5/01 7:47:23 PM
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Back up your facts
with citations.
The [link|http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/bowenj/antitrust/stdoilnj.htm|vast] [link|http://europe.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9805/18/monopoly/|majority] [link|http://beginnersinvest.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bilderberg.org%2Fwhatafel.htm|of] [link|http://www.history.rochester.edu/fuels/tarbell/MAIN.HTM|sources] give Standard Oil a 90% market share.
Rockefeller played the railroads the same way MS played the PC makers.
The rest of your post is also garbage. The price of kerosene was falling because everybody was switching to gasoline to fuel the new automobiles. None of this mattered to JDR, he controlled the refineries and the shipping - crude still had to be shipped and refined - whether you crack it to kerosene or gasoline makes no difference.
Do you get it yet? Did you know MS is busy sweet-talking the RIAA with promises that if all CDs going forward ship in only MS Media Player format that their file sharing troubles will be over? And who will decide who gets MSMP code and for how much? Hmmmmm.
>What do you call Sun, IBM, AOL, Oracle, Apple, etc.?
Uh, which of these other companies are direct competitors to MS in desktop operating systems for PCs? I've seen this red herring before save it. The court didn't find them credible competition either. Thus, MS *is* a monopolist and *is* guilty of leveraging their monopoly position to try to create additional monopolies.
Oh yeah, their position makes it impossible to get funding to start a competing venture because everybody assumes that competing with MS is *not* possible because of their OS leverage and mafia-like sales tactics.
I have experienced this first hand several times and had a company I work for put out of business because MS released a free version of our product bundled with the OS after inviting us to spend significant $ porting to their new Windows platform and promising not to do such a thing.
Yeah, I'd like to see their campus bombed with effective legal remedies, lying sacks of Squidley.
-Ed note- in light of the increase scrutiny from our beloved Big Brother and the heightened security levels presently being enjoyed by our citizenry coupled with the use of my real name for a handle I added a more accurate descripting of just what sort of bombing would be desired and in now way do I now, nor have I in the past advocated actions which may result in the sudden and violent loss of property and/or life.
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