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New Re: Russia/n
"Russia/n Ven\ufffdj\ufffd Haven't the fucking faintest where this comes from."

Well, it could from "svenya", Russian for swine. (see the resemblance Box?)

Use the two leading consonant rule... :)

Surely, the Russians were swine in their treatment of Finns.
Alex

Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. -- Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
New Treatment of Finns
Do you mean 1100, 1400, 1800 or 1917 on?

Inquiring minds want to know.
New Re: Treatment of Finns
Actually, the one I had in mind was the Winter War - Russo-Finnish War 1939-1940 (technically with the Soviet Union). A Finn told me about it once.

But as you well know, wars between neighboring European contries are almost compulsory! :)
Alex

Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. -- Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
New Well, at least they seem to be *compulsive*...
New WTF happened in 1100 or 1400?? If by "1800" you mean 1805...
Do you mean 1100, 1400, 1800 or 1917 on?

Inquiring minds want to know.
...though, then that was the one time Russia treated Finland with great humanity and generosity.

Recap for those not up on their history of the North-Eastern corner of Europe: After one of their many wars (the second or third after Russia had become a great power, and Sweden had ceased being one), in 1805 Russia took the Eastern half of Sweden for its own, thus finally securing its "new" (by then, 100-year-plus) capital St. Petersburg and its access to the Baltic Sea.

The annexation was an unusually -- for the time, almost incredibly -- mild and distant one: Finland became, not a province in the Russian empire, but a Grand Duchy directly under the Tsar (its Grand Duke); more or less *beside* the (rest of the) Empire. It got to keep its separate laws (i.e, Swedish law) and its own administrative language (i.e, Swedish -- as for Finnish, I guess the attitude must have been, "Who cares what the peasants speak with each other?!?").

Unfortunately, this generosity didn't last more than a few decades: From about the 1860s on, there were increasingly frequent attempts at, and increasingly intensive campaigns for, Russification. So it's no big wonder the Finns -- or make that Finlanders, as it includes the ethnic Finland Swedes -- took their chance and declared independence during the Russian October Revolution, in November 1917.

Given the fighting ability -- especially, relative to that of the Russians -- they demonstrated three decades later, it was damn smart of Lenin (who had his hands full everywhere else anyway) not to try to stop them. What "generosity" on the part of the Russians are you trying to claim this demonstrates?

I have no idea what you're talking about WRT the years 1100 or 1400 -- and frankly, I don't think you do, either... In 1100, Russia was still in some respects the Far East, about as relevant to the Finns as China. In other respects, it wasn't yet really Russian, but the Easternmost of the Scandinavian kingdoms; related by blood and marriage to its Western neighbour, Sweden, with both meddling in each other's internal affairs as far as dynastic matters were concerned. Its "treatment" of the Finnish populace was no different from that of its "treatment" of the Norwegians or Azerbaijanis, i.e, for the most part non-existent.

And 1400... WTF is supposed to have happened in 1400, where Russia should have had anything to do with Finland?!? YM the war in, IIRC, the 1380s, the "Big Bang of Viborg" and all that? Again, in a war between neighbouring mediaeval kingdoms, the populace of the territory in dispute was treated no different than their immediate neighbours to both sides (i.e, the more or less undisputed subjects of the respective combatants): Harshly trodden over in the course of war, oppressed as a matter of routine, but mainly ignored.

You're batting one out of four, Arkadij.
   Christian R. Conrad
The Man Who Knows Fucking Everything
New Just the reply I hoped for. Thnk you.
(and .250 batting average is not considered bad (if I remember correctly) :-) )
New Thanks CRC
for the mini-Finnish history lesson VS The Rus. Like most Muricans, I be even more iggorant of Finland (except for Sibelius, maybe) than the rest of the local real estate.

Odd synchronicity: Prince Valiant (the never-ending, best-drawn comic, now done by a successor to Hal Foster) - is embarking on a saga in which an army led by Justinian, accompanied by 'fierce warriors from Rus' - are following a stolen map which purports to show the location [!!] of The Garden of Eden\ufffd.

(Well, they were young, then.. and took things literally. Surely by now.. they no longer do take such things literally. Surely.)


A.
New I thought I was the only person who reads that...
Shoulda suspected that if anybody else did, it would be an IWETHEYer...
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
New Choke on my Singing Sword, barbarian!
:-)
New Now that Aleta..
Certainly showed repeatedly - how to restrain a Jock from doing rilly Stupid stuff, on many an occasion where the old Swingin Sword mighta got em all into deep shit.

Who says that womens liberation was something New? Hell it was one of my earliest recollections about life n'stuff.. a few of her little quips + a Red-faced (!) Prince V. = even us tykes knew what That meant:

Busted!

IMhO, good ol Hal Foster intro'd a bunch of us to.. something like 'literature' before we could spell it. Kudos to him.


Ashton
New Omniscient LRPD says: 'Oh my God! They killed Kenny!'
     Hey, Sir Cyclic - (jb4) - (14)
         Suomi fir Finnish -NT - (boxley)
         Yup, the Box has it (almost?) right: - (CRConrad) - (12)
             CRC: Thanks for the linguistics lesson! -NT - (jb4)
             Re: Russia/n - (a6l6e6x) - (10)
                 Treatment of Finns - (Arkadiy) - (9)
                     Re: Treatment of Finns - (a6l6e6x) - (1)
                         Well, at least they seem to be *compulsive*... -NT - (CRConrad)
                     WTF happened in 1100 or 1400?? If by "1800" you mean 1805... - (CRConrad) - (6)
                         Just the reply I hoped for. Thnk you. - (Arkadiy)
                         Thanks CRC - (Ashton) - (4)
                             I thought I was the only person who reads that... - (inthane-chan) - (3)
                                 Choke on my Singing Sword, barbarian! -NT - (CRConrad) - (2)
                                     Now that Aleta.. - (Ashton)
                                     Omniscient LRPD says: 'Oh my God! They killed Kenny!' -NT - (Ashton)

There are 178 parent languages on our planet, with over 1000 dialects. It's amazing we communicate at all.
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