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New Interrelated
You keep saying you don't like OO, but all your comparisons seem to be comparing tables to files. Is your main beef with files vs tables? Because it looks to me like you and Scott are having two different discussions.


They are interrelated because people tend to use OO to compensate for limits of hierarchical file systems but I prefer databases for such. And, to communicate info between the program and the database sometims files are needed (or to speed things up) because compilers and interpreters are better integrated with file systems than database systems. For example, "include" commands in programs are adapted to grab code from files, but not directly from databases. There is pro-file bigotry out there.

Scott's argument seems to be that OO and file-centricity currently work well together and that is why one should go with them instead of table-centric approaches. It is kind of a QWERTY argument: standards protect themselves because they create mini-industries and habits around such standards, even if they have problems.

My argument is that even though conventions limit their power, table-centric approaches are still superior, or at least not clearly inferior.
________________
oop.ismad.com
New Re: Interrelated
table-centric approaches are still superior, or at least not clearly inferior.
You've demonstrated no superiority whatsoever. The only thing you've demonstrated is possible code maintenance parity (by using control tables and poorly imitating polymorphism), which has quite a few deficiencies, including poorer performance and migration maintenance.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
     Re: Login checks and declarative processing - (admin) - (130)
         Re Re: Login checks and declarative processing - (tablizer) - (129)
             Declarative languages can easily be turing complete - (ChrisR) - (9)
                 I am assuming he means XML-like -NT - (tablizer) - (8)
                     There are a multitude of XML based languages.... - (ChrisR) - (7)
                         If your config files are TC, then why have 2 langs? -NT - (tablizer) - (5)
                             Do you really have to ask? - (ChrisR) - (2)
                                 TC != Easy -NT - (tablizer) - (1)
                                     Exactly. - (ChrisR)
                             One's a hammer, the other is a screwdriver. -NT - (admin)
                             As an aside, that question has popped up in another context - (ChrisR)
                         BTW, Turing machines don't require much. - (ChrisR)
             Re: Login checks and declarative processing - (admin) - (118)
                 Login checks and declarative processing - (tablizer) - (117)
                     Re: Login checks and declarative processing - (admin) - (116)
                         Polymorphism - (tablizer) - (115)
                             Raison d'etre d'composition - (FuManChu) - (3)
                                 Epicycles - (tablizer) - (2)
                                     Re: Epicycles - (admin)
                                     Once more with feeling - (FuManChu)
                             So the best organization of code is... - (ChrisR) - (8)
                                 The funny thing is... - (admin) - (1)
                                     Noticed that too - (drewk)
                                 That is NOT what I said - (tablizer) - (5)
                                     Re: That is NOT what I said - (admin)
                                     Poor dichotomy on which to base your opinion of OO - (FuManChu) - (3)
                                         re: Poor dichotomy on which to base your opinion of OO - (tablizer) - (2)
                                             re: Poor dichotomy on which to base your opinion of OO - (admin) - (1)
                                                 How Lisp of you. Just add some TOP now. -NT - (tablizer)
                             Who says it's hard-coupled to a single factor? - (admin) - (101)
                                 so you say - (tablizer) - (100)
                                     Sounds like another... - (admin) - (99)
                                         Text is linear - (tablizer) - (98)
                                             Re: Text is linear - (admin) - (97)
                                                 Delt-A-Matic - (tablizer) - (96)
                                                     Re: Delt-A-Matic - (admin) - (95)
                                                         problem is treed-files, not procedural - (tablizer) - (94)
                                                             Re: problem is treed-files, not procedural - (admin) - (21)
                                                                 Re: problem is treed-files, not procedural - (tablizer) - (20)
                                                                     Re: problem is treed-files, not procedural - (admin) - (19)
                                                                         Re: problem is treed-files, not procedural - (tablizer) - (18)
                                                                             Re: problem is treed-files, not procedural - (admin) - (17)
                                                                                 misunderstanding - (tablizer) - (16)
                                                                                     Re: misunderstanding - (admin) - (15)
                                                                                         Well... I pack up my development database and... - (ChrisR)
                                                                                         How do you prime it in the first place? - (folkert) - (2)
                                                                                             I prefer Kilz myself. -NT - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                                                                                 That works well... - (folkert)
                                                                                         The file system *is* a database - (tablizer) - (9)
                                                                                             Re: The file system *is* a database - (admin) - (8)
                                                                                                 over-the-phone brain surgery - (tablizer) - (7)
                                                                                                     Re: over-the-phone brain surgery - (admin) - (6)
                                                                                                         a single command does not like databases? - (tablizer) - (5)
                                                                                                             Re: a single command does not like databases? - (admin) - (3)
                                                                                                                 Re: single command - (tablizer) - (2)
                                                                                                                     Naw... you are thinking... - (folkert)
                                                                                                                     Re: single command - (admin)
                                                                                                             Database migrations (new thread) - (admin)
                                                                                         Nit: some code does belong in a database. (sp's) -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                                             Exactly. - (FuManChu) - (71)
                                                                 Amazing, isn't it? - (admin)
                                                                 OO takes credit for sunrises even - (tablizer) - (69)
                                                                     Scheme and the Lambda Calculus - (ChrisR)
                                                                     Re: OO takes credit for sunrises even - (admin) - (60)
                                                                         No way Jose -- Gotta go to DB anyhow - (tablizer) - (59)
                                                                             Er... - (admin) - (27)
                                                                                 "Use OO because OO is faster" is the best you can do? - (tablizer) - (26)
                                                                                     Serious question - (drewk) - (2)
                                                                                         Interrelated - (tablizer) - (1)
                                                                                             Re: Interrelated - (admin)
                                                                                     Re: "Use OO because OO is faster" is the best you can do? - (admin) - (22)
                                                                                         Table != Disk - (tablizer) - (21)
                                                                                             Re: OR mappers slowing things down - (ChrisR) - (17)
                                                                                                 Re: OR mappers slowing things down - (tablizer) - (16)
                                                                                                     Re: OR mappers slowing things down - (ChrisR) - (15)
                                                                                                         Re: OR mappers slowing things down - (tablizer) - (14)
                                                                                                             Procedural abstraction - (ChrisR) - (2)
                                                                                                                 My abstraction can beat up your abstraction - (tablizer) - (1)
                                                                                                                     re: Relational is more than storage (new thread) - (ChrisR)
                                                                                                             It wasn't a caching issue - (ben_tilly) - (10)
                                                                                                                 No file IO - (admin) - (9)
                                                                                                                     I understand how it worked - (ben_tilly) - (8)
                                                                                                                         Index lookup in code, or table index? - (admin) - (7)
                                                                                                                             That requirement would shock me - (ben_tilly) - (6)
                                                                                                                                 Re: That requirement would shock me - (admin) - (5)
                                                                                                                                     Question about Oracle tables - (ChrisR) - (2)
                                                                                                                                         You can pin them in memory. - (admin) - (1)
                                                                                                                                             Oracle tables pinned in memory. - (admin)
                                                                                                                                     You did give the impression that CPU was the issue - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                                                                                                                                         Whoops, my mistake. -NT - (admin)
                                                                                             Re: Table != Disk - (admin) - (2)
                                                                                                 This is an area in which I'm proud of Dejavu - (FuManChu) - (1)
                                                                                                     Nifty. - (admin)
                                                                             Another little anecdote for you: - (admin) - (7)
                                                                                 OT: Scott, can we please do something about long lines? - (jb4) - (6)
                                                                                     Dang, this was SUPPOSED to go into the Suggestions forum - (jb4) - (3)
                                                                                         The other way, besides cut and paste, is to re-type it :-) -NT - (ChrisR) - (2)
                                                                                             There isn't enough time in the world... - (jb4) - (1)
                                                                                                 HTH: As with Perl, There's More Than One Way To Do It -NT - (ChrisR)
                                                                                     Perhaps one might play with CSS clip and overflow...? -NT - (FuManChu)
                                                                                     Not that I'm aware of. - (admin)
                                                                             Retrieving the customer record anyway: - (admin) - (22)
                                                                                 question - (tablizer) - (21)
                                                                                     Re: question - (admin) - (20)
                                                                                         The other method is to have one column.... - (ChrisR) - (2)
                                                                                             Re: The other method is to have one column.... - (admin) - (1)
                                                                                                 That's the spirit!!! -NT - (ChrisR)
                                                                                         I would have to look at the nature of the data -NT - (tablizer) - (16)
                                                                                             Are you kidding?? - (admin) - (15)
                                                                                                 suggestion 3 - (tablizer) - (14)
                                                                                                     Re: suggestion 3 - (admin) - (13)
                                                                                                         bottleneck black box - (tablizer) - (12)
                                                                                                             Storing Dictionary as Session variables in ASP - (ChrisR) - (8)
                                                                                                                 It has gotta go *somewhere* - (tablizer) - (7)
                                                                                                                     ASP is OO - (ChrisR) - (6)
                                                                                                                         re: ASP is OO - (tablizer) - (5)
                                                                                                                             ASP = COM - (ChrisR) - (4)
                                                                                                                                 re: ASP = COM - (tablizer) - (3)
                                                                                                                                     ChiliSoft ASP - (ChrisR) - (2)
                                                                                                                                         Interesting terminology - (FuManChu) - (1)
                                                                                                                                             You're probably correct convention-wise - (ChrisR)
                                                                                                             Re: bottleneck black box - (admin) - (2)
                                                                                                                 how they relate - (tablizer) - (1)
                                                                                                                     Re: how they relate - (admin)
                                                                     I don't understand why you mention "eval" -NT - (FuManChu) - (6)
                                                                         re: I don't understand why you mention "eval" - (tablizer) - (5)
                                                                             I get it now. - (FuManChu) - (4)
                                                                                 OO is just a (bad) reinvention of 60's databases with - (tablizer) - (3)
                                                                                     No. You are a proponent of OO programming. - (folkert) - (2)
                                                                                         The question that launched a thousand arguments - (tablizer) - (1)
                                                                                             That explains a lot - (FuManChu)

tar -C /usr/local/dev/zope/import zxf lrpdisms.tar.gz
305 ms