Yes, read it and weep. Again.

Do you view Al-Jazeera in the same way, as a means to gage Arab public opinion?

L.A.: No, my experience is very different because I have been a journalist covering Middle Eastern politics for a long time and I go there often. I am very aware of Arab public opinion. I'm just amazed it's on television. It hasn't changed my understanding because it has been part of my work from the beginning.

I'll tell you the difference: In the '80s people like me were persecuted because we were writing reports critical of governments. I lost my Jordanian passport twice, I was thrown out by the Syrian government, many of my articles were edited out of existence. It was an uphill struggle. So it's very personally important that Al-Jazeera is there, because people like me were slandered, censored, harassed, everything. When I see Al-Jazeera, it feels like what I and others worked for has been vindicated, that what we were writing about and what we were punished for is now in the open. Journalists can now say things they couldn't say before.

Given the changes wrought by Al-Jazeera and the changes in the state of journalism you describe, how hopeful are you for continued press freedoms in the Arab world? And do you think governments will become more democratic as public opinion becomes a stronger force?

L.A.: This war is setting back the struggle for democracy in the Arab world. Arab governments are very aware that they have to support the U.S. line, so they are curtailing press freedoms and forcing papers to curtail their critiques of the U.S. All Arab newspapers are receiving such instructions because they are owned partly by Arab governments. My opinion is that this war is creating more censorship, more fear, less chance for democratic progress in the Arab world.

Tamara Straus is senior editor of AlterNet.org

This is (these are) credible observers, and Lamis Andoni a most experienced one. That we are starting from 'below zero' is not entirely about the Bush I or Clinton presidencies so much as IMho - our own innate jingoism and arrogance and basically: our faith that techno- military powers shall always overcome even the need to 'appear aware' of others' views of the (their!) world. That we would actually empathize with aspects of these others' opposing views - is an idea which would have cost you your livelihood and perhaps liberty - if expressed even tangentially, in the very-American McCarthy era.

I believe that we (our govt. acting as such) lack the wisdom to see the dimensions of This 'war', the humility to rapidly become educated - and the *actual* tolerance for such views as:

abhor the subordination of all human considerations to.. mere mercantile pacts and Machiavellian manipulation - under the rubric of "democracy". American 'Economist Dogma' invented the idea of workers being burdens and not assets, and it shows everywhere now. When one observes who actually purchases legislators in the US, who actually votes - and how potential 'leaders' are Elected or Selected - our mythos becomes even more ludicrous.

Our hypocrisy matches that of any robed-despot - in the political sphere. As to the religious compulsion and its simultaneous political capability of galvanizing hordes of folk, as willing to die as to visit Disneyland: I know of no Westerner with the acumen to create counters to this vast Idea - with any political power or more than fringe access to the Corporate-owned major press - so as ever to be heard. (Except by those already aware and equally powerless.) Does anyone imagine that *this* article or similar - will be reviewed by a talking head tonight?

We shall launch Wagg-Ed type pieces as suit the 13-year old mind of the 'target consumer for Walmart' - so effective here. Our cynical marketing droids, at least at the exec. level - are not such fools as to be unaware of the crass pure Pavlovian manipulation which is their trade. But their collective ignorance of all things not-"Christian" and not fitting the Murican mass stereotype, combined with a US-centric view of all history: leaves us defenseless and pratfall prone, in the coming days and months IMO.

Now add-in the Paki nukes (however controlled or not) and our impatience for Results, nomatterwhat:

What a huge Cosmic Joke that we should be 'led' at this critical juncture by: (at least putatively) a man so insouciant, so insulated from how most folk try to scratch out a living here (or anywhere else)... and an "Oil Man" + cabinet of similar lackeys - to drive-in the stake further!

Perhaps we shall master this learning curve and actually become conversant in the dialogue now happening entirely apart-from us. It would indeed be a historical First for us even to try. Humility is rarely to be found in our organizations; when it ocurs, it generally makes the nightly news as an aberration (!) (remember the N.East owner who rebuilt a burned mill rather than cashing in: to continue his workers' jobs? THAT was reported everywhere.. Why?)

Ashton

Post #15,606 by Ashton 10/29/01 6:26:59 PM Reply	Yes, read it and weep. Again. Do you view Al-Jazeera in the same way, as a means to gage Arab public opinion? L.A.: No, my experience is very different because I have been a journalist covering Middle Eastern politics for a long time and I go there often. I am very aware of Arab public opinion. I'm just amazed it's on television. It hasn't changed my understanding because it has been part of my work from the beginning. I'll tell you the difference: In the '80s people like me were persecuted because we were writing reports critical of governments. I lost my Jordanian passport twice, I was thrown out by the Syrian government, many of my articles were edited out of existence. It was an uphill struggle. So it's very personally important that Al-Jazeera is there, because people like me were slandered, censored, harassed, everything. When I see Al-Jazeera, it feels like what I and others worked for has been vindicated, that what we were writing about and what we were punished for is now in the open. Journalists can now say things they couldn't say before. Given the changes wrought by Al-Jazeera and the changes in the state of journalism you describe, how hopeful are you for continued press freedoms in the Arab world? And do you think governments will become more democratic as public opinion becomes a stronger force? L.A.: This war is setting back the struggle for democracy in the Arab world. Arab governments are very aware that they have to support the U.S. line, so they are curtailing press freedoms and forcing papers to curtail their critiques of the U.S. All Arab newspapers are receiving such instructions because they are owned partly by Arab governments. My opinion is that this war is creating more censorship, more fear, less chance for democratic progress in the Arab world. Tamara Straus is senior editor of AlterNet.org This is (these are) credible observers, and Lamis Andoni a most experienced one. That we are starting from 'below zero' is not entirely about the Bush I or Clinton presidencies so much as IMho - our own innate jingoism and arrogance and basically: our faith that techno- military powers shall always overcome even the need to 'appear aware' of others' views of the (their!) world. That we would actually empathize with aspects of these others' opposing views - is an idea which would have cost you your livelihood and perhaps liberty - if expressed even tangentially, in the very-American McCarthy era. I believe that we (our govt. acting as such) lack the wisdom to see the dimensions of This 'war', the humility to rapidly become educated - and the actual tolerance for such views as: abhor the subordination of all human considerations to.. mere mercantile pacts and Machiavellian manipulation - under the rubric of "democracy". American 'Economist Dogma' invented the idea of workers being burdens and not assets, and it shows everywhere now. When one observes who actually purchases legislators in the US, who actually votes - and how potential 'leaders' are Elected or Selected - our mythos becomes even more ludicrous. Our hypocrisy matches that of any robed-despot - in the political sphere. As to the religious compulsion and its simultaneous political capability of galvanizing hordes of folk, as willing to die as to visit Disneyland: I know of no Westerner with the acumen to create counters to this vast Idea - with any political power or more than fringe access to the Corporate-owned major press - so as ever to be heard. (Except by those already aware and equally powerless.) Does anyone imagine that this article or similar - will be reviewed by a talking head tonight? We shall launch Wagg-Ed type pieces as suit the 13-year old mind of the 'target consumer for Walmart' - so effective here. Our cynical marketing droids, at least at the exec. level - are not such fools as to be unaware of the crass pure Pavlovian manipulation which is their trade. But their collective ignorance of all things not-"Christian" and not fitting the Murican mass stereotype, combined with a US-centric view of all history: leaves us defenseless and pratfall prone, in the coming days and months IMO. Now add-in the Paki nukes (however controlled or not) and our impatience for Results, nomatterwhat: What a huge Cosmic Joke that we should be 'led' at this critical juncture by: (at least putatively) a man so insouciant, so insulated from how most folk try to scratch out a living here (or anywhere else)... and an "Oil Man" + cabinet of similar lackeys - to drive-in the stake further! Perhaps we shall master this learning curve and actually become conversant in the dialogue now happening entirely apart-from us. It would indeed be a historical First for us even to try. Humility is rarely to be found in our organizations; when it ocurs, it generally makes the nightly news as an aberration (!) (remember the N.East owner who rebuilt a burned mill rather than cashing in: to continue his workers' jobs? THAT was reported everywhere.. Why?) Ashton
Post #15,691 by bluke 10/30/01 6:01:47 AM Reply	Unfortunately this describes Arab public opinion [link\|http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9032-2001Oct29.html\|Where Bigotry Gets a Hearing] "...It was then he learned that even the mob "knew the Jews were behind" the terrorist attacks -- and, it goes without saying, the poisoning of "sick Muslim children, who then died." You can, in a way, look it up. I have given you just a bit of an interview Muhammad Gemeaha granted an Egyptian Web site, www.lailatalqadr.com, which is unofficially affiliated with Cairo's prestigious al-Azhar University. ... They are yet another example of Arabs saying one thing to Western audiences and quite another thing at home. This is not to say that all Arabs do that -- just enough to cause worry."
Post #15,791 by Ashton 10/30/01 6:20:59 PM Reply	I don't doubt the 'news management' there - or here. We mouth the words about "not giving up those rights which define what we think we are", but a little fear turns most to sheep; 'secure' sheep. It appears there is some consensus that, the Arab world has long settled for self-manufactured news and that - the average listener has little else available for comparison. If we can't create a viable counter-propaganda campaign - including the broadcast of such material effectively, as an actual alternative / supplement? Then I doubt anything can stop the next escalation to frustrated mindless techno-violence. That which you have become inured to in Israel may prove to have been miniscule. I wish this were mere hyperbole.. A.

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