Post #152,049
4/21/04 6:22:07 AM
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Why they hate us
Walter Russell Meade ([link|http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/21/opinion/21MEAD.html|Why they hate us, really]) has figured out why the US is hated in the Middle East and the answer is, "belief that the United States simply does not care about the rights or needs of the Palestinian people." This is so ridculous it is almost funny. The Palestinian issue is the scapegoat for every ill in the Arab world. Why is there no freedom in the Arab world? the Palestinians. Why is there no economic growth? the Palestinians. Name any problem in the Arab world and the answer is the Palestinians. What is even sadder is that the Arabs really don't care one whit about the Palestinians. The Palestinians are sitting in refugee camps for 56 years and not a single Arab country has lifted a finger to improve their lot and get them out of the camps. In fact, they are doing the reverse. They want the refugees to sit in the camps so that they have a scapegoat and so that they can distract the populations attention from their own abysmal performance in power, and of course as a pawn against Israel. For example in Lebanon "Palestinian refugees in Lebanon do not have social or civil rights and their access to healthcare and education is very limited. Lebanese law prevents Palestinian refugees from working in over seventy jobs or professions" (from [link|http://www.map-uk.org/progs_lb.htm|Medical Aid for Palestinian]. The same goes in most of the Arab countries. Until 1967, under Egyptian rule, the entire Gaza refugee population lived in prison-like conditions: nightly curfews, restricted travel outside the Strip, and even a law forbidding them to mingle with the local Gaza population. The Arabs have actively prevented the Palestinian refugees from being resettled. What other group of refugees has it's own UN agency and has existed for 56 years? The answer of course is no one.
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Post #152,059
4/21/04 8:42:36 AM
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Little example here.
You have a small yard.
Your neighbor has a bigger yard.
Your neighbor also has a dog, which it treats really badly. He keeps the dog chained to a short leash, beats it, doesn't let it run, forgets to feed/water it, etc.
One day, your neighbor decides he wants your land. You beat him so badly that he gives you some of his land, including the bit that has the dog in it.
Do you:
a) Keep treating the dog the way your neighbor did?
b) Put the dog to sleep, as it is obviously out of it's mind by now with fear and anger.
c) Show the dog some basic respect and dignity, hoping the dog will eventually learn that it doesn't have to fear everybody? Yes, you'll probably get barked at and occasionally bit.
Which of the above is the moral choice? Does making choice "a" excuse what your neighbor did? No. Your neighbor is still a totalitarian despot.
(And yes, I know that a badly mistreated dog is a pain in the ass to turn around, and that humans are roughly the same)
I think why such a good part of IWETHEY is upset with Israel is a double standard - but it's the kind of double standard we hold somebody to that SHOULD KNOW BETTER. Israel isn't (in theory) ruled by a dictatorial junta, so we don't quite understand why Israel keeps acting like one.
Nobody wins in a butter eating contest
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Post #152,082
4/21/04 12:26:42 PM
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Actually Israel improved the situation of the Palestinians
Before 1967 there were no universities, little or no electricity, water, etc. Israel provided all of those. The Arabs refused to let anyone help the refugees.
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Post #152,083
4/21/04 12:30:24 PM
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A few problems with your analogy
The analogy should be you and your neighbors have a dispute over borders. Your neighbor tries to force the issue and you not only beat him back but take some of the land. The neighbor treated the dog like dirt. You try to treat the dog better but instead of showing gratitude he attacks you.
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Post #152,085
4/21/04 1:01:32 PM
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From the view outside of Israel, it's more like...
You say nice doggie, the dog bites you, you beat the crap out of it, stick it right back in it's previous situation, and go back to the previous abuse.
No, I'm not claiming the U.S. is any better about these kinds of things - I think I've been pretty straightforward about calling the U.S. for abuse of various groups as well. You might consider this a biased view, but that's the way it has been presented around the world, especially the settlements which seem like nothing more than bald-faced antagonism.
Nobody wins in a butter eating contest
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Post #152,136
4/21/04 9:13:12 PM
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The basic problem you describe
is that the Arabs do not believe the Palestines are THEIR problem. They believe it is a problem, that should be solved and that they shouldn't be the ones solving it.
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Post #152,148
4/21/04 9:29:43 PM
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Well since they have been trying to solve it by
wiping out the Israeli's repeatedly since 1948 you would think Jordan, prior ruler of the west bank. Egypt prior owner of gaza and Syria whose maps show both lebanon and northern Israel being wholly owned by them might want to admit they have issues.
thanx,
bill
attempting to explain profiling doesn't require one to take a position for or against it any more than attempting to explain gravity requires one to be for or against gravity. Walter Williams
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #152,149
4/21/04 9:32:30 PM
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And also note that in 1966
A palestinian state with a capitol in East Jerusalem and all of the westbank and most of the Sinai which is a hell of a lot bigger than Gaza could have been established, created unilaterally and aproved by the UN but they thought they could get all of it with just one more attack.
losing's a bitch.
thanx,
bill
attempting to explain profiling doesn't require one to take a position for or against it any more than attempting to explain gravity requires one to be for or against gravity. Walter Williams
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #152,214
4/22/04 10:57:22 AM
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Love the passive voice
i.e. "the problem should be solved", not " I/we will solve the problem"
Lots of leeway for wringing of hands and pointing of fingers, not much for getting off of one's ass....
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #152,183
4/22/04 12:28:04 AM
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And to think Israel could have taken in the Palestinians
as brothers and helped them out and taken away these scapegoat issues. And you could have kept the Gaza and all of West Bank as well. There is an ancient three-word message in Hebrew [link|http://www.bible-light.com/BLON/V09-1_2002-01/a5.htm|V\ufffdAHAVTA L\ufffdREICHA C\ufffdMOCHA] that translates to \ufffdYou shall love your neighbor as yourself.\ufffd It\ufffds a command, not a suggestion. Alex
Sacred cows make the best hamburger. --Mark Twain
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Post #152,294
4/22/04 9:23:56 PM
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Cretin motherfucker Mohammed ass-fuckers
-drl
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Post #152,298
4/22/04 10:20:52 PM
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Hey, how are *you* doing anyway? (new thread)
Created as new thread #152297 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=152297|Hey, how are *you* doing anyway?]
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Post #152,311
4/22/04 11:59:43 PM
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know an good lookin females of that persuation?
the ole lady is getting bored of the IDF meets single wanton palestinian woman with one dynamyte stick in her possesion game.
thanx,
bill
attempting to explain profiling doesn't require one to take a position for or against it any more than attempting to explain gravity requires one to be for or against gravity. Walter Williams
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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