BUT...

Post #148,298 by lincoln 3/24/04 7:41:34 PM Reply	BUT... Did any Japanese workers lose their jobs in Japan because Honda was now building cars in the US instead of in Japan? If so, then I would consider THAT to be outsourcing. lincoln "Windows XP has so many holes in its security that any reasonable user will conclude it was designed by the same German officer who created the prison compound in "Hogan's Heroes." - Andy Ihnatko, Chicago Sun-Times [link\|mailto:bconnors@ev1.net\|contact me]
Post #148,299 by Yendor 3/24/04 7:45:28 PM Reply	Can you prove they didn't? Once upon a time, all Hondas were built in Japan. By that token, as well as your line of reasoning, all future Hondas should therefore be built in Japan. So, yes. Somewhere along the line, I'd wager better than even odds that a Japanese worker somewhere is missing his auto-building job because of that plant in Ohio. -YendorMike, who is merely playing Devil's Advocate (for those who cannot tell.) [link\|http://www.hope-ride.org/\|http://www.hope-ride.org/]
Post #148,303 by deSitter 3/24/04 7:51:33 PM Reply	Re: Can you prove they didn't? I very much doubt that many companies in Japan would settle for the kind of social irresponsibility we see here. There is a far shorter distance money-wise from window washer to CEO - the Japanese are obsessed with personal honor - and honor is a group concept. Unlike the US, Japan does not have an enormous trade deficit - the latter and outsourcing go hand in hand. The Japanese objective seems to be to preserve the corporate body - the American, to line the executive pocket. I think this is a simple case that it is more profitable to everyone at Honda to make cars here to be sold here, without the shipping costs tacked on to inhibit sales. -drl
Post #148,799 by lincoln 3/26/04 1:32:39 PM Reply	I can't , and I don't think you can either as far as proving whether Honda did offshore jobs to the US or whether they just expanded the company by opening a US mfg plant. One thing for sure is the reason they opened it: to get around the "voluntary" limits that Japanese car makers placed on themselves during the Reagan administration to avoid getting slapped with a US govt limit on the number of cars they sent to the US. Remember when "we're all out of $5000 Corollas, but I have a whole bunch of loaded $8000 Camrys"? lincoln "Windows XP has so many holes in its security that any reasonable user will conclude it was designed by the same German officer who created the prison compound in "Hogan's Heroes." - Andy Ihnatko, Chicago Sun-Times [link\|mailto:bconnors@ev1.net\|contact me]
Post #149,327 by CRConrad 3/30/04 1:37:12 AM Reply	Silly quibbling, + Did Europe have a "voluntary" limit, too? Lincoln quibbles: as far as proving whether Honda did offshore jobs to the US or whether they just expanded the company by opening a US mfg plant. What's the fucking difference?!? Creating jobs elsewhere in stead of at home is a form of "outsourcing" too, AFAICS. Like, for instance, the Dell Call Center in India that's been in the news recently (because they brought parts of it back to Texas) -- would that have been OK if they'd founded it in India a few years earlier, before they ever had one in the US? (And, wouldn't that have turned the "bringing back" into "Evil Outsourcing" -- to the US?) One thing for sure is the reason they opened it: to get around the "voluntary" limits that Japanese car makers placed on themselves during the Reagan administration to avoid getting slapped with a US govt limit on the number of cars they sent to the US. So, if they imposed that limit on themselves just in order not to get "slapped with a US govt limit", isn't that exactly the same as if the HAD got "slapped with a US govt limit"? Any which way you slice it, it still amounts to Evil Americans thwarting free trade in order to get jobs outsourced TO America, it seems to me. But, just in case you don't agree(): There is a Mercedes factory in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, and there is BMW factory in Spartanburg, South Carolina. They build German cars there. For German companies. And they employ American workers.* Had European car makers placed similar "voluntary" limits on themselves, or what? Maybe you need to climb down off that "us poor Americans, we're always the victims and never the beneficiaries of Evil Outsourcing" hobby-horse you've been prancing around on for years now. Remember when "we're all out of $5000 Corollas, but I have a whole bunch of loaded $8000 Camrys"? No, I don't, actually. But I bet that must still have been a better deal than the overpriced overweight Yank crap on sale at the time. (): i.e, if you want to make it even more blatantly obvious what a hypocrite you are on these issues. [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad]* (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575\|Ashton Brown]
Post #149,340 by mmoffitt 3/30/04 7:00:25 AM Reply	In short, what Americans are seeing for the first time is the negative impact of our obsession with capitalism. I wonder how many Americans remember the great gains in every branch of government the Republicans made by claiming that, "Government ought to be run like a business" and "I'm pro-business"? Well, it is now. How do you suppose they like it? For as long as any American can remember, we have been the beneficiaries of American Capitalist Global Exploitation. Now some of those evils are coming home to roost. And we Muricans don't like it. bcnu, Mikem The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism. - Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"

Welcome to IWETHEY!