Enameled Iron isn't forever

Post #147,415 by Andrew Grygus 3/21/04 12:10:50 PM Reply	Enameled Iron isn't forever Turns out it lasts less than 20 years of normal use and by then the enamel has desolved from the inside bottom. Result: I needed to replace my most used saucepan and pot because I don't like the taste of iron in my food. Had a look at enameled Iron. The cheapest brands are made in China and are very heavy, have rust problems on the rims, stain bandly, and have thin enamel. French (Crueset) is expensive and most other brands seem to have disappeared. Decided to look at multi-ply stainless (stainless conducts heat poorly so all-stainless is not good). They have Kitchen Aid at Sur Le Table in Pasadena and I looked it over. My mind has erased all pricing info in an attempt to maintain sanity. Found Amazon has some Cuisinart items (3-ply, aluminum core) at about 1/3 list (in other words, expensive but within human perception). I tried the 2-quart Windsor (tapered sides) saucepan ($42 free shipping) and initial tests are very positive, so I've placed an order for the 1-quart Windsor ($30 including shipping). Unfortunately, ovals are available only in enameled Iron. My 4-quart oval is still in pretty good shape, but when it needs to be replaced I'll replace it with the same. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #147,423 by Another Scott 3/21/04 1:25:36 PM Reply	I've been happy with some stuff from Target. I've got a couple of recent large sauce pans that I like. They're teflon coated on the inside and black anodized on the outside. [link\|http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/browse/-/748496/104-2424127-0799924\|Kitchen Essentials from Calphalon]. I like it because it has a glass lid, it's easy to clean, and it heats up pretty evenly on my ancient electic range. And it was reasonably cheap. The outside is impossible to get perfectly clean due to the aluminum ridges, (something that is probably and advantage for porcelain-coated pots and pans) but since it's black it's not something I worry about too much. Another thing to be aware of is that most teflon-coated pots can't be washed in a dishwasher if you want the teflon to last. Cheers, Scott.
Post #147,426 by Andrew Grygus 3/21/04 1:57:45 PM Reply	Aluminum conducts heat well . . . . and is definitely the low cost way to go, but I cook a lot of very acid things and don't trust coatings - they tend to get penetrated sooner rather than later. Acid and aluminum mix a little too well. For fried stuff, or where it gets well coated with oil and for neutral ph cooking it should be fine. I saw a note somewhere that aluminum is no longer a prime suspect in Alzheimer's, but too much aluminum in the diet probably still isn't good. That glass lid is an attractive feature and I've been eyeing some Calphalon stuff in laminate, but haven't seen just the sizes and shapes I need. I'm not about to buy expensive stuff I don't really need. My single most important cookware item is a deep 10" covered plain cast iron skillet and it works great (and will last for centuries). [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #147,429 by admin 3/21/04 2:38:20 PM Reply	We have a 3.5qt Calphalon anodized Windsor Great pan, nice and thick, but the tomato sauces have already taken the anodized finish off the bottom. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #147,570 by Arkadiy 3/22/04 6:39:12 PM 3/22/04 6:39:53 PM Reply	dupe, sorry -- Less Is More. In my book, About Face, I introduce over 50 powerful design axioms. This is one of them. --Alan Cooper. The Inmates Are Running the Asylum Edited by Arkadiy March 22, 2004, 06:39:53 PM EST Expand All History
Post #147,571 by Arkadiy 3/22/04 6:39:32 PM Reply	Why doesn't somebody put cast iron on top of aluminium? Thermal expansion, I guess. That would be an ideal skillet. -- Less Is More. In my book, About Face, I introduce over 50 powerful design axioms. This is one of them. --Alan Cooper. The Inmates Are Running the Asylum
Post #147,601 by Andrew Grygus 3/22/04 8:43:16 PM Reply	Cast Iron is generally thick enough . . . . to provide good enough heat transfer by itself, so there's no real need to face the manufacturing problems. Sheet metals can be hot rolled or pressed together in the forming die, aluminum would have to be cast over the cast iron, a tricky and expensive procedure. Laminate is much more necessary when you are dealing with thinner material, as with stainless which is generally thin and isn't a good heat conductor. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #147,762 by Arkadiy 3/23/04 9:51:40 AM Reply	I was thinking "weight" My mom is very fond of her cast iron pans (skillets?) but it's getting too heavy for her to handle. -- Less Is More. In my book, About Face, I introduce over 50 powerful design axioms. This is one of them. --Alan Cooper. The Inmates Are Running the Asylum
Post #147,620 by deSitter 3/22/04 8:57:48 PM Reply	What's wrong with Pyrex? Nothing beats glass for ease of cleaning, because you can scour the hell out of it without scratching it. -drl
Post #147,627 by Andrew Grygus 3/22/04 9:06:53 PM Reply	Re: What's wrong with Pyrex? Every piece of Pyrex ovenware says clearly on the label, "not for use on open flame". The temperature stresses are far too great and it'll crack, possibly explode dangerously. It also can't take the physical beating frying pans get. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #147,639 by Another Scott 3/22/04 9:20:21 PM Reply	I've got some Pyrex pots and skillets. I don't think they're made any more. Stuff like [link\|http://www.cyberattic.com/stores/JAKGUY/items/261934/item261934cyberattic.html\|this]. It's nice for some things (e.g. steaming veggies), but doesn't heat as evenly as metal pans. It's not good for heating spaghetti sauce.... It's great for the microwave though. :-) Cleaning is easy even when stuff is burned on. Just pour in some bleach and heat it up for a few minutes - watch the fumes though. Scouring isn't a good idea because it does scratch and then loses some of its easy cleaning properties. Cheers, Scott.
Post #147,655 by deSitter 3/22/04 9:47:56 PM Reply	Re: What's wrong with Pyrex? I've been using a Pyrex skillet for a long time. Just don't get it really hot and plunge it into cold water. It's like lab glassware, just be sensible. Those warnings have to be legal matters. -drl
Post #147,699 by Andrew Grygus 3/23/04 1:13:55 AM Reply	The kitchen isn't a lab - it's a production facility. There's a lot going on at once, and if something is getting too hot, you have to be able to toss in the next round of ingredients right now to bring it down. Stuff gets banged around a lot and sometimes there's accidents. It's no place for gear with "special needs", so I'll save glass for the coffee maker at breakfast. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #147,430 by a6l6e6x 3/21/04 2:59:05 PM Reply	Re: multi-ply stainless My wife and I have had and continue to use a "Seal-O-Matic" "waterless" cookware set since 1961. My mother-in-law gave to us as a wedding gift. The waterless part is a bit bogus because you do use water, just less of it. The pan covers seal a pan so that steam does much of the cooking. If I remember the original construction details, it's iron covered by a thin layer of stainless steel. The only damage to the cookware that I recall is my wife singeing the bakelite handle, flame guard notwithstanding, of one of the pots on a gas stove. That was in the early years with toddlers about. We got a replacement for that handle and still have an extra "just in case". Apparently Regal Ware had the "Seal-O-Matic" brand at least in recent years but has [link\|http://www.seal-o-maticcookware.com/\|retired it]. [link\|http://www.vitacraft.com/5ply.htm\|Something vaguely similar] but with an aluminum core. Anyway, the multi-ply stainless has worked well here. Alex Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom ... the argument of tyrants ... the creed of slaves. -- William Pitt, addressing the British House of Commons (1783)
Post #257,374 by twosnugglebugs 5/31/06 11:35:53 PM Reply	ATTN: Alex Re: "Seal-O-Matic" waterless cookware Wednesday - May 31, 2006: Hello Alex, I just had to reply, since I purchased my "Seal-O-Matic" waterless, stainless steel, pots and pans in June of 1962. Like you and your wife, we are still using our cookware and it looks almost as good as the day I bought them! Your Mother-in-Law gave you an exceptional wedding gift! The whole set in 1962, when I purchased it, was over $264.00 which was a small fortune in that era; I was still a teenager. However, the sales lady convinced me that Americans would die from bacteria if I didn't have the "Seal-O-Matic" cookware to use! She even gave me a "free" set of steak knives as my gift and I, in turn, referred her to another couple who also purchased a complete set. America has been healthier for almost 44 years because of that cookware (ha ha). There is none comparable! In checking on google, I read that "Seal-O-Matic" may have been purchased by the "Treasure Chest Company". Do you know anything about that? I'm interested in all info you can provide regarding the real "Seal-O-Matic" cookware which is a registered trademark. Thank you. Judy
Post #257,419 by boxley 6/1/06 7:56:33 AM Reply	welcome and post often Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #257,718 by a6l6e6x 6/5/06 12:10:20 AM Reply	Do you know anything about that? No more than can possibly be Googled. And, welcome to the group! Alex When fascism comes to America, it'll be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross. -- Sinclair Lewis
Post #147,431 by pwhysall 3/21/04 3:01:22 PM Reply	Nothing beats a well-seasoned carbon steel wok Single most versatile thing ever. Makes great pancakes :) Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home Page - Now with added Zing!]
Post #147,457 by FuManChu 3/21/04 6:14:52 PM Reply	Hallelujah! Preach it, brother!
Post #147,464 by Andrew Grygus 3/21/04 6:49:01 PM Reply	Woks are a religion . . I have two woks, a large wooden handled spun steel job from Atlas Metal Spinning in San Francisco, and a smaller cast iron one (I suspect it came from Japan, but I'm not sure). I use them only occassionally, mostly for things that start large and wilt down to small. The problems I find are: On a gas stove they tend to be too hot in a ring around the center and not hot enough at the center where the oil runs to (on the clay stoves they were designed for they'd be hottest in the center). They take up way too much real estate on the stove top. Seasoning is very critical or you end up with a metalic taste in the phase where water is added and you cover it and let it simmer (not as much a problem in the cast iron one but you lose some of instant temperature control). they're a hassle to handle at the sink during clean-up. I tend to do even Chineese stuff in the deep 10" coverable skillet. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #147,533 by pwhysall 3/22/04 1:54:49 AM Reply	Sink? Dishwasher BABEH! Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home Page - Now with added Zing!]
Post #257,402 by Andrew Grygus 6/1/06 2:35:46 AM Reply	Wok Update I now have three woks. The third one cost me U.S. $80 but is well worth it because it makes the wok usable - the Calphalon 13" multiply. It's got a flat spot in the center just big enough for stability so it sits right down on the flame and there's no heat blocking ring stand. The flat spot is small enough it doesn't interfere with normal wok function. Heat in the high conductivity aluminum layer spreads out very effectively to keep heat even across the bottom and up the sides. 13 inches is just a tad small but not so much as to be a serious problem. It cleans easily and there's no chance of getting an iron flavor in acidic foods. It doesn't come with a lid and a lid is very important, particularly one that's high enough to fit over steamers and such. Fortunately I found a 32 cm stainless wok lid that fits with absolute perfection at the Asian Supermarket. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #147,441 by boxley 3/21/04 4:08:58 PM Reply	prefer cast iron cookware for even heat distribution and iron is good for you. Last trip up to northern florida stopped at a flea and found a perfect cast eggpan.4 inch diameter and 1 inch deep. No one else is allowed to use it. Cooks a single egg perfectly, sits in the middle of a piece of bread perfectly. Allmost killed a youngun who had the temerity to cook and then wash it. After water got on it I had to season the dam thing agsin. Took half a dozen eggs before it stopped sticking. thanx, bill when I was young I envisioned myself as the embodiment of Trinity, Now I realize I have turned into the Bambino questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #147,474 by Andrew Grygus 3/21/04 7:04:11 PM Reply	Cast Iron is great for frying, no economical substitute . . . . but if your cooking has a long simmering phase after frying, it's less than ideal. Enameled Iron is where it's at then. I have a general 9" frying pan which is kept properly seasoned and a sheet steel (better temperature control and shape) omelet pan. The omelet pan never sees water, but the frying pan gets scrubbed out and reseasoned when it gets too much build-up on the sides. Grape seed oil works very well for seasoning. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #147,475 by boxley 3/21/04 7:06:25 PM Reply	Simmering goes into the preassure cooker, without the top on stout steel construction keeps an even temp, dont preassure cook too much anymore, just chicken when Im in a hurry. thanx, bill when I was young I envisioned myself as the embodiment of Trinity, Now I realize I have turned into the Bambino questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]

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