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New It started with the Roman Empire.
Official policy was simple - you could have any and as many religions as you want, but there was only one government: Rome. Problem was, there were two religions that were the government: Judaism and Druidism. The Druids decided it wasn't a bad policy and politely faded away. The Jews fought tooth and nail - millions died and are still dying.

Christianity and Islam, as descendents of Judiasm, have always wanted to be the government, and the Church of Rome pretty much pulled that off. For a long time the only real resistance was the Masons, rooted in Germany where the power of the Church was a bit iffy.

The foundation of the U.S. was a Masonic plot, which is why our government is so different from what went before, and why the "Great Seal" of the U.S. is entirely Masonic symbolism. Naturally, the Masons were wary of the churches.

The Christians fairly quickly moved into the government, and tried to get rid of the Great Seal and other Masonic trapings, but have been held in check by the law. This has been a continuing church/state battle.

As for Pagan symbolism, while there are Pagans today, and some few favor the Classic pattern of abstraction (most chose Egyptian, Celtic or Eastern patterns), they are no threat whatever because they do not seek in any way to be the government - what they want from the government is protection from the Christians, who would very happily murder every non-Christian in the world if not held in check by the law - and who are a direct threat to government because they want to be the government.

Christian icons on government property are a direct threat not only to non-Christians but to the government itself and cannot be tolerated. Pagan symbolism is just that, abstract symbolism - neither an object of worship nor a threat to government or to people of other religions.

[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New A fallacy in your argument

As for Pagan symbolism, while there are Pagans today, and some few favor the Classic pattern of abstraction (most chose Egyptian, Celtic or Eastern patterns), they are no threat whatever because they do not seek in any way to be the government - what they want from the government is protection from the Christians, who would very happily murder every non-Christian in the world if not held in check by the law - and who are a direct threat to government because they want to be the government.

Christian icons on government property are a direct threat not only to non-Christians but to the government itself and cannot be tolerated. Pagan symbolism is just that, abstract symbolism - neither an object of worship nor a threat to government or to people of other religions.


Common belief, far fetched, and sterotyping fallacies. While there may be Christians who believe that, not all of them do. I am one of the Christians who do not believe in wiping out all other religions and their people. I have no desire to run the government. You are treating Christian symbols as if they were Nazi symbols or something. Those Christian beliefs that you claim all Christians have, are totally against the teachings of Jesus. You are judging all of Christianity based on the actions of a few radical Christians. Would you like me to judge all Pagans based on the actions of a few radical Pagans that used to harass me because I am a Christian? That is one road I refuse to travel down.



"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"

     I am trying to understand seperation of church and state - (orion) - (106)
         Your religion must be dead for 1000 years - (altmann)
         You found it. - (inthane-chan) - (67)
             a few nits - (danreck)
             Aw, what the hell... - (danreck) - (65)
                 How I read it - (orion) - (64)
                     You also have to look up the 14th amendment - (ChrisR) - (9)
                         Thanks for that - (orion) - (8)
                             Religious freedom is an individual's right... - (ChrisR) - (7)
                                 The way I see it - (orion) - (6)
                                     Getting off into gay marriages? - (ChrisR) - (5)
                                         Sorry I brought it up - (orion) - (4)
                                             Why did the blood tests go away? - (ben_tilly) - (3)
                                                 Test have not gone away everywhere and it is not because of - (a6l6e6x) - (2)
                                                     That link didn't work in mozilla :-( - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                                                         I had the same problem w/Moz. - (a6l6e6x)
                     This is why the law applies - (JayMehaffey) - (4)
                         Court rooms - (orion) - (3)
                             The legislature enacts the laws, - (ChrisR) - (2)
                                 Still more questions - (orion) - (1)
                                     Re: Still more questions - (JayMehaffey)
                     The phrase you are looking for verbatim - (Ashton) - (2)
                         Sort of "read between the lines" - (orion) - (1)
                             NO.. - (Ashton)
                     I think you are reading it quite accurately... - (danreck)
                     You could speculate or... - (ben_tilly) - (44)
                         Causes even more confusion - (orion) - (43)
                             Secular isn't vague. - (pwhysall) - (33)
                                 By that reasoning then... - (ben_tilly) - (2)
                                     I didn't reason at all. - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                         Do try to keep up, willya? - (ben_tilly)
                                 Not what the dictionary says - (orion) - (29)
                                     Oh yes it is. - (pwhysall) - (28)
                                         That's not a proper Engrish dictionary - (ChrisR) - (27)
                                             Which is in which country (hint hint)? -NT - (pwhysall) - (26)
                                                 United Kingdom? -NT - (ChrisR) - (24)
                                                     "United Kingdom of A, B, C and D E" - (pwhysall) - (23)
                                                         Araq? -NT - (ChrisR) - (3)
                                                             /me pulls the IFS lever. -NT - (pwhysall)
                                                             Beeria, Crikey, Disrael, and Effinghanistan -NT - (deSitter) - (1)
                                                                 You've won a free IFS! -NT - (pwhysall)
                                                         Anglos, Berbers, Chinese and Damned Europeans? -NT - (Silverlock) - (1)
                                                             My IFS machine is busy tonight... -NT - (pwhysall)
                                                         Arrogant Bastards with Crappy Dictionary Examples? -NT - (admin) - (14)
                                                             STAB! -NT - (pwhysall) - (13)
                                                                 Ah... - (admin) - (12)
                                                                     Administrative Boofheads Continually Defy Elegance -NT - (pwhysall) - (11)
                                                                         WOBAFGKMRNS - (deSitter) - (10)
                                                                             Re: WOBAFGKMNRS - (admin) - (9)
                                                                                 you get a gold star -NT - (deSitter) - (8)
                                                                                     Not much of a stretch. - (admin) - (7)
                                                                                         hmm go back? exciting times for astronomy -NT - (deSitter) - (6)
                                                                                             Two reasons: - (admin) - (5)
                                                                                                 Sheeat - (deSitter) - (4)
                                                                                                     Or Scott could just get his son to teach him... -NT - (inthane-chan) - (2)
                                                                                                         I'm sure Scott can handle it - (deSitter) - (1)
                                                                                                             joke == missed. :D -NT - (inthane-chan)
                                                                                                     You make an assumption... - (admin)
                                                         Without googling - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                                                             You are correct! - (pwhysall)
                                                 In which country is the law in question being examined? - (orion)
                             The Bottom line.. - (deSitter) - (3)
                                 The footnotes to the bottom line... - (danreck) - (2)
                                     Re: The footnotes to the bottom line... - (deSitter) - (1)
                                         Jefferson is spinning like a rotisserie chicken in his grave - (danreck)
                             I didn't say that it was simple - (ben_tilly)
                             Makes me wonder... - (Nightowl) - (3)
                                 They don't make you - (ben_tilly) - (2)
                                     True, but what I really meant - (Nightowl) - (1)
                                         Well, apply the Lemon test - (ben_tilly)
         It started with the Roman Empire. - (Andrew Grygus) - (1)
             A fallacy in your argument - (orion)
         funny you should ask - (rcareaga) - (12)
             in one area of the article, only half is revealed - (boxley) - (7)
                 and this "agriculture" stuff - (rcareaga) - (1)
                     You know, if you have to choose... - (ben_tilly)
                 Actually, less than half is revealed - (jb4) - (3)
                     China is far more advanced in this area. - (a6l6e6x)
                     When I was there - (lincoln) - (1)
                         The problem is an expired contract... - (jb4)
                 Bought/sold :-0___ you mean like IT workers? -NT - (Ashton)
             bRandishment - (Ashton) - (3)
                 for every blowdried3piecesuitlimoowning preacher - (boxley) - (2)
                     And those sammich-handing-out ones remain silent as - (Ashton) - (1)
                         nope, in their view meek get sh*t -NT - (boxley)
         Look no further than the first phrase of the first amendment - (ChrisR)
         Re: I am trying to understand seperation of church and state - (JayMehaffey)
         Also a key point that nobody else is pointing out... - (ben_tilly) - (1)
             The effect is nonlinear - - (Ashton)
         It goes back to Jefferson. - (Another Scott) - (9)
             Which goes back to the pilgrims, IIRC - (Steve Lowe) - (2)
                 Right - (deSitter) - (1)
                     Interesting sidenote - (deSitter)
             Vauge language - (orion) - (5)
                 Um, all speech and writing is subject to interpretation. - (Another Scott) - (2)
                     You b*3tard... - (danreck) - (1)
                         Not meant to cause offense. - (Another Scott)
                 Not in the current context - (deSitter) - (1)
                     Your interpritation - (orion)
         Can't take the time for an appropriate clue bashfest - (Silverlock) - (2)
             If you cannot answer the question - (orion) - (1)
                 I'm not sure what your question actually is. - (Silverlock)
         sepArate <<<_______grating, that___over and over and___ -NT - (Ashton) - (4)
             Perhaps that explains why the search came up empty? -NT - (ChrisR) - (3)
                 16,300 hits in Google. :-/ -NT - (Another Scott) - (2)
                     Did you mean: separation of church and state? - (ChrisR) - (1)
                         Yup. ;-) - (Another Scott)

THEN WHO WAS PHONE?
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