Well it is a start

Post #138,464 by orion 1/28/04 11:41:20 PM Reply	Well it is a start but you are right it did not cover MFC classes, etc. It is just enough to get my feet wet. So should I stick with VB or try to learn something else at this point? *"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*
Post #138,467 by deSitter 1/28/04 11:51:20 PM Reply	No, it is NOT a start It's precisely the opposite - an END, the final disgusting morphing of C into something worthless and unusable by a company of monopolists who are primarily responsible for the current fetid state of personal computing. C++ can be a decent language if used right. It it worth learning in its proper realm. But, first you have to know C. Do you? There is no way you can do C++ at any level without knowing C first. There is no way you can appreciate what C++ is trying to do without knowing objects first. Do you? Why don't you get a Linux box going and learn Python? Haven't the brilliant programmers around here like Scott and Fu raved enough about it? It's actually USEFUL. What about Todd and his raves about Smalltalk? It's USEFUL. What about Ben and his Perl gems? It's USEFUL. What about Conrad and his Delphi? If you have to stay glued to Windows like a milky tit, at least get into a worthwhile idiom. MFC and C++ on Windows are the WORST CONCEIVABLE WAY to learn C++, GUI programming, and messing with it will drive you crazy. It's SHIT SHIT SHIT from the bottom to the top. Don't trust me, compared to them I'm a hack, but I know enough to know enough. You want me to tell you what to do? GET THE FUCK OUT OF WINDOWS AND MAKE A LINUX BOX. -drl
Post #138,490 by orion 1/29/04 9:18:05 AM Reply	Learning something new C++ can be a decent language if used right. It it worth learning in its proper realm. But, first you have to know C. Do you? There is no way you can do C++ at any level without knowing C first. There is no way you can appreciate what C++ is trying to do without knowing objects first. Do you? I know C, I got an A out of both C classes I took in community college. I admit I am a bit rusty, and am relearning how to program in C. Like a muscle, if I don't use it often enough it gets weak. It will take some time to build back up. I looked at many C++ tutorials, but they assume the reader already knows about objects. Might as well be written in greek. I understand that a class is a definition of an object, and that methods and properties are encaspleated into objects. I also understand that new objects can be based on existing objects. Some things I am trying to grasp are polymorphism and inheritence. Objects inherit properties and methods from objects they are based on, is this right? Classes are also reusable and can help cut down on the development time of code by reusing objects from one program to another. All this is new to me and I am trying to digest it all without properly learning what objects are, as I never found a good source to explain it to me in plain English. So I pick up what I can from tutorials that already assume I know it. Of course I could have the concept of objects all wrong. Why don't you get a Linux box going and learn Python? Haven't the brilliant programmers around here like Scott and Fu raved enough about it? It's actually USEFUL. What about Todd and his raves about Smalltalk? It's USEFUL. What about Ben and his Perl gems? It's USEFUL. What about Conrad and his Delphi? If you have to stay glued to Windows like a milky tit, at least get into a worthwhile idiom. MFC and C++ on Windows are the WORST CONCEIVABLE WAY to learn C++, GUI programming, and messing with it will drive you crazy. It's SHIT SHIT SHIT from the bottom to the top. So many choices, Python, Smalltalk, Perl, Delphi/Kylix, etc do not forget Ruby, REXX, and many others. Not like throwing a lot of choices at me helps when I cannot make up my mind what to learn. You want me to tell you what to do? GET THE FUCK OUT OF WINDOWS AND MAKE A LINUX BOX. Don't you think I want to? All attempts to install Linux have met with failure so far. I am waiting until the current kernel stabilizes and is included in the distros. Then I have a choice on what distro to use, and yet again cannot make up my mind on it. SuSE, Red Hat, Debian, Lindows, Slackware, can't seem to find which one I want to use. *"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*
Post #138,491 by boxley 1/29/04 9:21:28 AM Reply	just wait for the microsoft version of linux It wont fuckin work either but you will be compfortable enough to try it I'll bet. thanx, bill same old crap, con artists ripping off fools. Ah, hell, Catholic Church it start off that way. They All do. Jesus probably had three walnut shells one pea, then he's dead and can't be questioned, Gabriel Dupre questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #138,685 by orion 1/29/04 5:11:57 PM Reply	No I won't most likely MS will charge $360 for it, and SCO will require $699 for a user license. I just need to find the time to muck around with Linux again, last time took hours and wasted my time and fustrated me. So I am taking a big break until I have extra time to do so again. Last success I had was on my brother's system with Red Hat 9.0 but it would not run his games properly. *"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*
Post #138,784 by pwhysall 1/30/04 7:52:20 AM Reply	Pull the other one You're either too lazy or too stupid to install Linux because deep down you love Windows. At no point have you ever posted anything approximating a serious attempt to install Linux with proper problem reports and step-by-step stuff. Never. If I can put Linux on an HP9000 D330 with no display hardware and a serial console and a network connection by way of connectivity, you can put it on a PC. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home Page - Now with added Zing!]
Post #138,838 by orion 1/30/04 11:42:00 AM Reply	You pull the other one I gave exactly what the screen said. I listed the hardware used and talked about how far the install went. I honestly have no idea what you think a proper problem report looks like. I would use my Red Hat 9.0 disks, but support is going away. Fedora may be better to download then. Only it seems to upset the SuSE and Debian lovers here when I talk about using a different distro than they use. Lindows I had considered, but I'll have to buy a copy as it is not free. I actually tried to ask other Linux users, not here, but on #Linuxhelp on a (shudder) IRC channel on what distro to use. No replies and I was ignored. Reminds me why I hate IRC so much. I use Windows because I already know how to troubleshoot it, I can work through botched install. I cannot seem to work through a botched install with Linux, nor is anyone willing to help me without a proper problem report or whatever the fck I got to do to get help, secret handshake, passphrase, and taking an oath to never run Windows again. :( "Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*
Post #138,847 by Simon_Jester 1/30/04 1:12:10 PM 1/30/04 1:12:35 PM Reply	Linux takes study to use it. It WILL require a level of dedication from you. If you don't want to use it, or you don't want to put the effort into learning it, that's fine - don't use it. As for which distro - pick one. I don't care, and am not going to get pulled into a debate on which distro is better. However, most of the people on here know debian and will help you with debian problems because that's what they know. (Asking Redhat questions to Debian users isn't going to elicit a multitude of responses). But the first question must be a desire to learn. There is NOTHING wrong with not wanting to learn Linux. If Windows works for you, why switch? Edited by Simon_Jester Jan. 30, 2004, 01:12:35 PM EST Expand All History
Post #138,894 by orion 1/30/04 3:48:09 PM Reply	Why switch? Actually I want to be able to use both. Get the best of both worlds. I will put in the effort to learn, but my time set aside for learning is limited. If I download Debian, will I get help from here? I am willing to fill out a problem report, if someone sends me a blank one. I am trying to figure out DragonLinux, I did a search on distros and found it interesting. It should be one of the most painless to install due to its nature and simplicity. *"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*
Post #138,895 by deSitter 1/30/04 3:48:52 PM Reply	Re: Why switch? I offered you a direct solution and you refuse. Why? -drl
Post #138,897 by orion 1/30/04 3:54:04 PM Reply	Too many choices I made a choice, and you do not like it. What am I supposed to do run SuSE like you instead of DragonLinux? No matter what choice I make, most people here are going to be unhappy. *"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*
Post #138,902 by deSitter 1/30/04 3:58:54 PM 1/30/04 4:00:11 PM Reply	No choice You don't have to make any choices - just follow my directions to the letter. I don't even have to visit you. Once you are up I can remotely set things up with VNC or even simple telnet access. You get a Linux system, configured by an experienced person, and then you can go to town. The differences in distributions are not important enough for a newbie to be showstoppers. They all have good and bad points. Repeat: send me a detailed hardware report on the target system and we'll get started. You don't have to do anything at all. -drl Edited by deSitter Jan. 30, 2004, 04:00:11 PM EST Expand All History
Post #138,907 by orion 1/30/04 4:02:22 PM Reply	Let me consider it I have to go out of town tomorrow and then study for a final exam. Will this be SuSE? Also give me some time to get data off the 98SE system before I get ready to format it. For VNC access, I'll need the port number to punch a hole through my DSL router firewall. *"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*
Post #141,222 by jb4 2/11/04 5:52:45 PM Reply	Dude... You don't fuckin care who you make happy/unhappy here. Just fuckin do it, awready! Your ability and willingness to take on a new endeavor cannot be based on whether it will make me happy. (Unless, of course, you're planning on supporting Duh in the next election; in which case, we'll have some words!) jb4 shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub* + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating that facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf.* BULLSHIT
Post #138,810 by tuberculosis 1/30/04 10:27:34 AM Reply	How 2 pick a distro and get running today Step 1: Go to the linux forum. Step 2: Ask which distro most people are using. Be sure to post what kind of hardware you want to run it on. Step 3: Select a recommended distro and make the individuals who recommended it your coaches. Put them on the hook for walking you through it. Post specific issues as you go. You will have a working linux distro within a week (probably in a day) with this approach. You just gotta adopt a coach and keep after him. I think I see Peter volunteering in another message BTW... .....To the future or to the past, to a time when thought is free, when men are different from one another and do not live alone -- to a time when truth exists and what is done cannot be undone: .....From the age of uniformity, from the age of solitude, from the age of Big Brother, from the age of doublethink -- greetings! -- George Orwell, 1984
Post #138,837 by ChrisR 1/30/04 11:39:02 AM Reply	Saving a step Step #1 - Complain that Linux is too hard to install Step #2 - Go To Step #1
Post #138,842 by orion 1/30/04 12:22:34 PM Reply	Help me pick a Linux distro (new thread) Created as new thread #138841 titled [link\|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=138841\|Help me pick a Linux distro] *"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*
Post #138,717 by FuManChu 1/29/04 9:32:20 PM Reply	FWIW, you don't have to use Linux to use Python But thanks for the compliment. :) All my current work in Python is: 1) Developed on Windows, yes, but 2) Deployable on Windows or Linux, without a single modification. Have your cake and eat it too.

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