Post #137,589
1/24/04 10:38:54 PM
8/21/07 6:40:45 AM
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This could go so many places
[link|http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/01/24/thai.monks/index.html|http://www.cnn.com/2....monks/index.html]
BANGKOK, Thailand (CNN) -- Two Buddhist monks have been slashed to death in separate roadside attacks in southern Thailand, two days after a similar attack which police blamed on Muslim extremists.
...
Officials have insisted the attackers were "common bandits" but local police and military officials have said they suspect the attacks may have been carried out by Muslim militants as part of a broader campaign to separate the country's five southernmost, Muslim-majority provinces from overwhelmingly Buddhist Thailand
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Where to put this - religion, news, world conflict? While I certainly realize there are law abiding rational muslims (I share a work pod with one - he's a good guy), I'm beginning to see the faith as a breeder of nuisance violent crackpots and can't avoid thinking it ought to be stamped out along with christianity and any other belief system that has fostered the killing if infidels, unfaithful, and the otherly opinioned.
"I believe that many of the systems we build today in Java would be better built in Smalltalk and Gemstone."
-- Martin Fowler, JAOO 2003
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Post #137,592
1/24/04 10:52:19 PM
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In Thailand whether it is Muslim extremists
or extremists who happen to be muslim making a point that they want to be left alone. People who practice Mu Thai are best left unhacked as these creatures may find out to their dismay.
thanx,
bill
same old crap, con artists ripping off fools. Ah, hell, Catholic Church it start off that way. They All do. Jesus probably had three walnut shells one pea, then he's dead and can't be questioned,
Gabriel Dupre
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #137,601
1/24/04 11:14:10 PM
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I understand Thai culuture a bit
everything is wrapped around Thai Buddhism. In order to work for the government you need to be Buddhist, etc. Those that are not Buddhist are not allowed to hold office, etc.
Of course the radical Muslims are against anyone or anything not Muslim in nature. Thai Buddhist Monks are peaceful and non-violent pacifists, mutliating them in that manner is pure evil. I hope that the world sees that the radical Muslims are not just against Jewish and Christian faiths, but any faith that is not Muslim. There are more of us than there are of them, and if we join together we can stop them.
"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"
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Post #137,632
1/25/04 5:56:00 AM
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Huh? guess that means "toe t'toe with them Ru^h^h Musskies"
- just like the rest o' the Religion-fulminated Warz. You're conventional right down to your socks, aintcha..
(Let's not even *imagine* something Else .. why that would be unMurican, abNormal too.)
Maybe if we killed. all. the. priests. -instead- ??
The body count would be a LOT less than the nuke alternative, now readied-up more and more every day, by the Neoconmen. A huge savings, right off the bat.
From there we could begin... the precipitate ascent from MASS STUPIDITY.
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Post #137,650
1/25/04 10:56:14 AM
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nah, the bassar's just come back as mosquito's
same old crap, con artists ripping off fools. Ah, hell, Catholic Church it start off that way. They All do. Jesus probably had three walnut shells one pea, then he's dead and can't be questioned,
Gabriel Dupre
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #137,664
1/25/04 12:17:57 PM
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All I am trying to say
is that we should join up to fight the Terrorists and locate them and put them into jail and try to stop them before they do more killings. Otherwise they are going to run unchallenged and keep on striking terror and keep on killing.
Don't you want the people who did these evil deeds behind bars or executed? Or would you rather that they kill off more Thai Buddhist Monks?
"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"
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Post #137,668
1/25/04 2:00:25 PM
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And how do you tell a radical muslim from a non-radical one?
I assure you, after you have killed off most of the radical ones, the non-radical ones will all be radical.
How many hundreds of millions of people are you prepared to kill?
(I'm not kidding here.)
Ben
"good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not"
- [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
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Post #137,669
1/25/04 2:04:22 PM
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Hmm, the resistant bacteria theory of terrorism
-drl
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Post #138,143
1/27/04 2:39:38 PM
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ICLRPD (new thread)
Created as new thread #138142 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=138142|ICLRPD]
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating that facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #137,673
1/25/04 2:18:11 PM
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By their actions
the radical ones that are doing the killings. Also who says we have to kill all the radical ones? You catch them in the act, gather evidence on them, put them on trial, if found guilty they go to jail. Note that there are radical ones that talk about it, but do not do the killings. They need to be monitored in case they decide to take action. Only by the sharing of information between different countries and cultures can we get an accurate picture of what is going on and what we need to look out for.
How many hundreds of millions of people are you prepared to kill?
I am not prepared to kill anyone, if done right hardly anybody has to die. Of course those who did the killings should be punished in some way and might have to be executed, if that is what a court decides on. There may be jail time for those others found guilty. The wholesale slaughter of millions that you speak of is not something I believe in. I believe this can be done with minimum bloodshed. If done that way, we can prevent other Muslims from turning into terrorists. We have to spread the word that terrorism is what we are fighting, and not a religion. These terrorists just happen to be radical Muslims, they are not being captured or tried for being Muslim, but for their actions.
"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"
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Post #137,681
1/25/04 2:35:25 PM
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Nice theory
Too bad our president doesn't want to follow it.
But on the other side, I'd suggest having an in-depth talk with someone who served in Vietnam. Acting in accord with civil principles only works if you still have the foundations of a civil society in place. When you make potential targets out of too much of the population, you don't. When the people providing firepower (US soldiers) are not trained for police work, are unable to tell people apart very well, and can't understand their speech in the first place, you have a bloody, bad mix.
Imagine how well Chinese-speaking troops would do at attempting to impose order on a fundamentalist Christian movement in The Bible Belt. Don't imagine a disarmed population either, the Middle-East has for decades been one of the best weapons markets in the world. In fact it is probably easier for insurgents there to put their hands on APGs than it is for us.
This is a fair assessment of what we face if we want to forcibly occupy a lot of Muslim countries over the long haul.
Cheers,
Ben
"good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not"
- [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
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Post #137,699
1/25/04 5:20:34 PM
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It is an alternative
and remember that the election for President happens in Nov 2004. :)
But on the other side, I'd suggest having an in-depth talk with someone who served in Vietnam. Acting in accord with civil principles only works if you still have the foundations of a civil society in place. When you make potential targets out of too much of the population, you don't. When the people providing firepower (US soldiers) are not trained for police work, are unable to tell people apart very well, and can't understand their speech in the first place, you have a bloody, bad mix.
In my theory we would create an International Task force and let the countries police their own countries for terrorist activities and share information with them. Who better to know their territory and language and culture and find those that are committing terrorist acts locally? We need to be careful here because killing the wrong people will result in more Radical Muslims wanting our blood. Then they will start to recuit more. Those 10 year old kids with the "I Luv Osama" T-shirts won't be 10 years old forever and eventually will be recruited. We would work with the native government, but not force them or control them or occupy them. This would also cost us a lot less money.
Imagine how well Chinese-speaking troops would do at attempting to impose order on a fundamentalist Christian movement in The Bible Belt. Don't imagine a disarmed population either, the Middle-East has for decades been one of the best weapons markets in the world. In fact it is probably easier for insurgents there to put their hands on APGs than it is for us.
I can imagine that quite well. The training our troops would need to get in the different languages and cultures would be costly, but would be more effective. Many countries sell weapons to middle-east countries. Amazing that their people are poor and starving, yet they can afford to buy machine guns and APGs. Where are their priorities? If we empower the native government to handle the arrests and trials of terrorists, it would not only cost us less but also be a much better diplomatic situation between the Muslim population and our country. In my humble opinion, I think that Bush has poor advisers that have not thought this thing through. If someone of my mental challenges can think this up, I wonder why those advisers cannot?
"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"
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Post #137,737
1/25/04 11:02:44 PM
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And you trust the native governments?
Remember, the local government often means the thugs that most effectively repressed everyone else. Funnel foreign aid in and they'll cheerfully redirect large fractions to private Swiss bank accounts. In fact they will get quite offended if you try to object to them doing it. (They will also claim not to be while proceeding to do it anyways.)
Furthermore many of these governments don't much like us, or if they do like us, don't see their goals as being aligned with ours.
Cheers,
Ben
"good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not"
- [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
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Post #137,743
1/25/04 11:16:36 PM
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You have a point there
in that how can we trust some governments? Some may be just like Iraq was, with a dictator running it pretending to be a Democracy. We would have to involve the United Nations to create an International Task Force that can find the terrorists and bring them to justice. Maybe people who are familiar with the language, customs, and government of that country that can work within it to find them without doing collateral damage like US Troops would? Some sort of International Delta Force. ;)
In the case of Thailand, I am sure that they want to get rid of the terrorists in their country too. The Thai Buddhist Monks are highly respected there, and I am sure they will want to bring those guilty to justice. They may need more information on how the terrorists operate, etc. Can't do that without sharing information with other countries and monitoring suspicious individuals.
"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"
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Post #137,761
1/26/04 4:41:59 AM
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Given such a milieu
One would think thrice before embarking upon a project fraught with so many unknowns.
Wouldn't one?
(Let us hope that the 0.3% Linux-users, per Google (and Andrew's correction of their exaggeration to 1%) - does not also represent the %Muricans who might share such a POV.)
Ashton
Gawd it's lonely at the bottom of the oil/$ chain; there's plenty of company, but - all ya can do is watch that tar baby with all those hands firmly affixed.
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Post #137,694
1/25/04 3:52:28 PM
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It's the state sanction that's the problem
While I certainly realize there are law abiding rational muslims (I share a work pod with one - he's a good guy), I'm beginning to see the faith as a breeder of nuisance violent crackpots and can't avoid thinking it ought to be stamped out along with christianity and any other belief system that has fostered the killing of infidels, unfaithful, and the otherly opinioned. The difference being..the guy in your work pod doesn't have: 1. A government telling him which faith to follow. 2. Financial incentive to become an extremist. 3. A life of hopeless desperation (yet). ...all of which were equally crucial to Christianity's darkest days. I put the most blame on difference #1. I was one of the original authors of VB, and *I* wouldn't use VB for a text
processing program. :-) Michael Geary, on comp.lang.python
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Post #137,793
1/26/04 10:51:50 AM
8/21/07 12:40:53 PM
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You left one out
The difference being..the guy in your work pod doesn't have:
1. A government telling him which faith to follow.
Allow me to add a big YET there.
[link|http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/this_world/3419693.stm|http://news.bbc.co.u...world/3419693.stm]
Whatever the answer, it is clear that the conservative Christian morality of President Bush is finding its way into legislation that promotes abstinence.
The Bush administration gave $120m to abstinence organisations last year.
[link|http://www.plannedparenthood.org/enews/040121_birth_control.html|http://www.plannedpa...irth_control.html]
The 2004 Women's Health Daybook, distributed by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, fails to address pregnancy prevention, say leaders of more than 30 state and national organizations engaged in promoting women's health.
[link|http://www.naplesnews.com/npdn/neapolitan/article/0,2071,NPDN_14939_2565974,00.html|http://www.naplesnew...9_2565974,00.html]
"The overall concern is that the top managers of the park service are implementing a conservative agenda that is at odds with their duties as custodians of the nation's heritage," said Jeff Ruch, director of Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility, a nonprofit group of federal and state resource workers.
The criticism began just weeks after "Grand Canyon: A Different View" went on sale at the park's bookstores in August, said park spokeswoman Dawn O'Sickey.
"This is a book that by its cover it shouts out, 'This is a biblical interpretation of how the Grand Canyon came to be in only thousands of years,'" Ruch said. "This is a decision to approve, in essence, a religious book."
------------
Looks like this government is well on its way to telling the people which faith to follow.
"I believe that many of the systems we build today in Java would be better built in Smalltalk and Gemstone."
-- Martin Fowler, JAOO 2003
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Post #137,794
1/26/04 10:53:51 AM
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True enough--they need to be stopped. Vote!
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Post #137,842
1/26/04 2:14:36 PM
1/27/04 11:20:46 AM
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And the Religious Right appreciates him
I just read Kevin Phillips' new book, American Dynasty. Lots of interesting stuff. The most relevant one is that Bush is loved by the Religious Right, getting 84% of their vote in the last election. They were around half of all votes that he got.
In fact he has them so well sewn up that he asks for, and gets, distance from their major leaders. Through channels the leaders can let their flock know who to vote for and Bush doesn't have to do anything that would generate negative publicity. Bush also can "talk in code". He routinely makes clear Biblical references which refer to things that are relatively obscure for people who don't read their Bibles closely. The result is that anyone who reads the Bible has Bush's views confirmed, while anyone who doesn't won't notice a thing.
Cheers,
Ben
"good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not"
- [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
Edited by ben_tilly
Jan. 27, 2004, 11:20:46 AM EST
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Post #138,121
1/27/04 11:18:33 AM
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Their Bible's what?
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Post #138,207
1/27/04 8:12:52 PM
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Bah. Anyone?
I read the Bible.
Bush is just another homocidal idiot using the Bible as a justification to grab power.
Just like so many others through the centuries.
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #138,213
1/27/04 8:28:51 PM
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Well.. OK. But - -
(Too-) Many Bibelistas Just Don't Get That: if you Say Jesus is On Your Side, why..
How COULD You Be Lying?
Discrimination is not a part of the Bible-embracing process: Apparently; and over and over and Pat Robertson and well, You Know
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Post #138,229
1/27/04 10:38:00 PM
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Jesus is alright with me. :)
(Too-) Many Bibelistas Just Don't Get That: if you Say Jesus is On Your Side, why..
How COULD You Be Lying?
Discrimination is not a part of the Bible-embracing process: Apparently; and over and over and Pat Robertson and well, You Know
I for one have the opinion that one cannot know if Jesus is on their side or not. It depends on how that person picks up their cross and follows Jesus to know for sure that Jesus is on their side. Sure I have my cross or crosses, my illnesses and my mental state. I try to follow Jesus as best I can, but I stumble and trip. I sometimes need help carrying my cross or crosses. I know that others have heavier cross and crosses than me, but I do what I can with mine. I hope and pray that Jesus is on my side despite the mistakes I have made. I really do not know for sure as I am not all-knowing. I can only guess that he is because I have suffered and carried my own cross or crosses and tried to follow him. What cross does Pat Robertson carry? Or does he put crosses on other people? Is he really representing Jesus, or is he trying to make money off of Jesus? I tend to think the later. Just like the money-changers in the Temple of God, Jesus would have driven him out for using God to make money. I certainly am not making money off of God, would not dream of it. Paul warned us about "Super Apostles" that can do amazing things. That they are "sham apostles, confidence tricksters masquerading as apostles of Christ." We were warned about them, but Christians still fall for their song and dance. I would guess that these people do not have Jesus on their side, despite using his name. For more info: [link|http://www.intelligentchristian.org/Super_Apostles.htm|http://www.intellige...uper_Apostles.htm] [link|http://www.cultwatch.com/superapostles.html|http://www.cultwatch...uperapostles.html] [link|http://christian-bible.com/NewTestament/Paul/2corinthians.htm|http://christian-bib.../2corinthians.htm]
"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"
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Post #138,254
1/28/04 1:22:22 AM
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Streamofconsciousness can be fun..
Akshully though, I'd say you indeed troubled to read the juicy bits with comprehension, such as many miss: indeed, many shall there be of the faux-prophets as shall pretend kinship with moi..
(The Esperanto Translation according to secret sources)
And with techno-magnification, we now have a 24/7 Plague of Locusts - which I believe was the general topic of this threadlet.
(Whatever inner dialogue works for you - is just fine. Nothin wrong with JC - it's just that a lot of his distant-followers/stragglers have become Real Boils on the Asshole of Humanity\ufffd)
And BTW.. if I read his stuff with comprehension (all the time tryin to stay well away from some of the psychos and misogynists who attached selves to the plot and guaranteed all the Warz and crap) - ya gets Brownie points for (Sincerely) Trying. ie No need for self-flagellation, for not really having the blueprint; the JC I read was no fucking CPA or Authoritarian anal retentive: those stepped in much later. As inevitably as lice. What ya think JC woulda thought of the Billy-level multi-billions in Corp stock of the present Keepers of the Faith?
Pity you had to link to Paul - that sucker was impotent, a misogynist - and has caused the suffering of millions of both genders ever since he began putting words in JC's mouth - how do I know? Experience. You don't need to be a shrink to spot symptoms of dysfunction.. and it sure ain't a God's dysfunction; Gods transcend gender politics, or so I've heard. (A dysfunctional God? Why that would have to look a lot like a John Ashcroft. Wouldn't it?)
So as Meher Baba (also) suggests, Don't worry. Be happy.
(But please - don't ever try to argue theology with either the washed or the unwashed - you aren't sinister enough to catch the sneaky word-mangling; y'know? :)
I Who Be
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