Heard on NPR (Jesse Goldberg, reporter - missed attribution) re Mubarak, the Egyptian press and its influence:

Two most influential (and govt. sponsored) publications are [phonetically guessed sp.] Al-Ah-Ram and Al-Akhbar.

Assertion of reporter is that these Cairo newspapers have massive influence not merely in Egypt, but throughout entire Muslim world. Further assertion: if Hosni Mubarak didn't want 'Holocaust denial' to be the policy of these organs - they would cease saying such..

Al-Ah-Ram's view of the perpetrators of 9/11: a combination of Mossad (Israel CIA) + Branch Davidians. [!!] Reporter states that this is not merely the view of some manipulative few, and that the effective importance of this paper is ~ The New York Times + Ari Fleischer!.

Why such doggerel (he asks and answers): to deflect attention from the failures of the local regime..

Of course this is one 'reporter's' view, one familiar with the milieu by experience and reputation - and just one angle of the kaleidoscope. I don't believe we can "win the argument game" via the kinds of (mere denial + ?) "contradiction", as in the words of our Esteemed Leader and many others of late. Words! are the thermonuclear weapons of *this* war. (Oh - and $ distribution - but that's another library)

We are going to have to become better informed, smarter and - actually clever. We need a modern G\ufffdbbels, in virtuosity! plus some tactics not usually associated with our stomping around the world a la Ugly American / Graham Greene exploits. Our Corporate-owned and increasingly concentrated press sucks universally, our leaders spout platitudes of denial and familiar slogans - and we go on shopping and flag-waving for comfort.

(When is the last time you recall seeing a genuinely philosophical discussion of anything, on main media time and 'sponsorship'?)

Can we adapt, massively? or just.. bomb more and more?




A.

WTC demands *some* action as well as lots else.

Just that: to ignore the necessity of clever rebuttal, language-tailored anti-idiot propaganda - instead concentrating mostly on mere military logistics: is, I believe, to grievously err.

As to an earlier comment you made on the general lines of how (expectedly) loaded are many caricatures of the Taliban, I'd say that - even thus far - there are some rather detailed and compelling illustrations of the 'life of women' under their rule. Enough of these to corroborate.. enough (for me). We have no need to artificially demonize these admins - it comes out of their mouths on Tee Vee interview, as well as via other sources, some veiled for survival.

However well or poorly we manage the propaganda war, AFAI can see, it is irrelevant What 'religion' they claim justifies their atrocious behavior:

We shall owe no apologies for numbers of dead - provably administrators - of such a regime, wherever found in course of next events. Most are not even Afghani, as we have discussed here.

That Hawkish enough?

We could do both that AND see to the tons of food, coming in right behind the tanks - we are *innovative* or at least claim to be. Calling off the war to supply food - does not signify the abandonment of the fed folk to the Taliban admins, just delay. There are only weeks in which to move this food, or be blamed for causing the starvation over the winter..

(Our Propaganda for now and next! Communication.. with various as do not wish to communicate? we can tackle later)


Ashton

I too possess a 'list' containing many more things as are unlikely to work, than - any imaginations of what might 'work' (for our usual definition -- instant solution to 1000 years of ingrained hostility)

As a mammal ancestor observed.. never enter bear's den with honey on hands. Or perhaps, although the Earth is larger than the Moon, it is farther away..


A.

The trouble with imagining you've got a handle on it all - is that there's no one to go to for counselling, since no one could be as wise as thee. Best find one ready & able to tell you to go fuck yourself; if too nice - you won't hear anything.



A.
That's your last freebie for prof. advice this quarter.

me to say, "Look.. I'm Honest!" ?

Tell me what's wrong with that sentence, smartass.

A.

(And the experience of every bigot and fanatic is also 'honestly theirs')

Yes, under the guise of a flavor of er 'conservatism' and the demonization of 'liberalism' (once meaning: possession of a reasonably open mind to new ideas) we have spawned the current usage in which neither of these words bears any resemblance to common usage over centuries!

We Muricans have fucked with language all along - spin / marketing is our daily noise background and.. the measure of how little respect we (actually) have for, that proper use of language which alone permits honest communication of any kind. Make certain key words fuzzy, all-inclusive thus meaningless:

You have thus killed one more possibility of being understood, evoking reasonable and fruitful discussion: and instead produced cant, as in most all pseudo-'political' discussions today. Here at IWE, too - too often.

I haven't read this book yet, of course - but I will. And I recall those days and the hysteria, so reminiscent of the just-ended [??] decade of McCarthyism; fucking with words / dehumanizing of those with different ideas. I am neither shocked nor surprised at the possibility that this book is genuine, documented and reflects actual plans of our omnipresent nut-cases in positions of Authority. We so love to lie to ourselves about our proclivities!

Seven Days in May (later a movie with Burt Lancaster magnificently portraying the heavy) captures perfectly the mindset alluded to in this review of, Body of Secrets. It describes a planned military coup against a 'not Tough-enough\ufffd for Us' president, and features many incisive vignettes of "how, often we do things here".

Murica is in no way immune to the tawdry dealings of the hypocritical - which we produce in similar proportions to other societies. Pity we dare not teach our school children about the flip-side of the many glowing attributes we ascribe to "US". This leaves them unprepared to deal *today* with the growing hegemony of Corporate droids whose only allegiance is to themselves - worldwide. Or to next deal sanely with this present situation: in many ways larger a threat to personal freedom than any events since Hitler, Stalin et al.

9/11 may as well bring out the worst in Murican culture as the best, we already see in such utterances from that Admin lackey who advised (already!)

..better Watch what you Say, next.. [!!!]

As Edward R. Murrow said to his cohorts on the eve of his broadcast shaming McCarthy, the proximate final cause of McC's downfall into deserved oblivion - this as they each tried to dredge up from memory.. any past act any had done? which might be used against Murrow = ad hominem when you have no real argument:

Gentlemen, the terror is right here in this room..

Let us not forget Our History -- this time around. I've lived through more of it than most here - and I see quite uncomfortable symptoms already. We have yet to heed Gandhi's remark about Western Civilization..



Ashton

But let's not make the same massive error as Pols everywhere here, cannot avoid making hourly:

The Murican Peepul think ____

I have *no idea* what The Indian Peepul think, but they are smart enough not to use that phrase (I think - no telling what modernization has produced)

Gandhi was.. Gandhi - his most powerful 'weapon of influence' (when all other suasion wasn't enough) was simply: to fast towards death. It worked at least twice - both (all) sides with whatever axes to grind, realized that he was an actually indispensable! person if Any side was to exercise influence in a semi-stable and new 'country'.

A nuke wouldn't have been an option for G. IMhO. Are you chiding the present country / rulers - for not having a / acting like a -- Gandhi?

If so - which Great One are We emulating, these days, locally.. ?

(Personally I'd prefer to live amongst relatively sane and peaceful shanties than - in a Titanium office tower with PHBs stalking hallways and arbitrarily screwing with peoples lives hourly - for (just their) fun & profit. If those were the only two choices)

We're fucking well the Biggest and the Baddest kid on the block, but 'wisdom' we're in short supply of - as is India sans Gandhi - and lots of other places run by slogans and spin, chasing more toys than the neighbor has.



A.

(That is *assuming* that it bears up under scrutiny better than UFOs etc. ...)

We need to know that we are neither more virtuous nor wise than.. most other homo-saps: same old Gaussian. This is *not* the picture portrayed in our classrooms (just as the pictures of Us portrayed in other classrooms possesses its own xenophobic content - we see).

If.. after all, WTC.. the event, proves incapable of shocking *any* reevaluation of a bevy of our assumptions, our policies and - certain actions since WW-II (??) then I believe we shall succumb to terminal fantasies about how the rest of the planet lives. Hasten our demise and likely that of many others.

So I think - by all means do we need to discover that of which we are capable and might.. have done to ourselves (always - "for our own good!" via the perps' rationale). Especially: "at this time".


A.