Some are, some aren't

Post #129,747 by tuberculosis 12/8/03 6:37:39 PM Reply	Some are, some aren't "However, there are a large number of DBAs who don't understand databases. Their position of authority comes only from them holding onto the database permissions. Any thought of creating or altering a table on even the most prototype of system is firmly resisted. Before you can create a table, it must pass the unwritten naming standards convention. Table names must be upper or lowercase, abbreviated so that they are unreadable and match the mainframe naming conventions of a maximum of 8 characters." I've met more than a few of these. They don't understand objects and do nothing but object to every little thing when presented with a schema designed to map to an object model. Having arrived at my new job today and dealing with the machine people - I'd like to point out that I was given a crappy generic laptop with 512M of memory - about 800MHz and expected to run JBuilder, Tomcat, TogetherJ, ClearCase, and the app (a travel portal) simultaneously. The average click response time is about a second and the admins insist the machine is adequate. Right. Where did you learn capacity planning again? I'd say that over the course of my career its been about 70/30 clueless obstuctionists/proactively helpful admins. "I believe that many of the systems we build today in Java would be better built in Smalltalk and Gemstone." -- Martin Fowler, JAOO 2003
Post #129,810 by drewk 12/9/03 9:36:56 AM Reply	70/30? Lucky guy I think the problem is that pretty much every job description is filled by about the same proportion. If you actually are one of the 30% of sysadmins, you spend half your time trying to accommodate the needs of the 30% of programmers, half trying to minimize the damage caused by the 70% of the programmers, and the other half trying to keep the 70% of sysadmins out of your way. More seriously, no matter what your job is, if you're actually good at it you become used to dealing with people who aren't good at theirs. Trying to curcumvent their ostructions then becomes a natural reaction. Recognizing that you're actually dealing with one of the good ones and letting them be in charge of their own domain is difficult. Recognizing when you're being one of the 70% is even harder. === Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
Post #129,817 by folkert 12/9/03 10:03:29 AM Reply	A-Freakin-Men, me droog! -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* [insert witty saying here]
Post #129,829 by deSitter 12/9/03 11:32:13 AM Reply	Re: 70/30? Lucky guy The real point here: Some admins understand that the system is not an end-in-itself, that the work it does is the end - and that means accomodating the developers even when it hurts - and... Some programmers understand they are part of a whole and don't abuse privileges for the sake of tinkerfutzing, rather, stick to their duties - and... Some people have seen it from both ends and so make the best admins. -drl
Post #129,865 by folkert 12/9/03 2:03:48 PM Reply	Not always... I have never and will never do development in an Enterprise setting. ( I just understand. I give the rights to the people that needs them... a little at a time. Until they screw up, I get more and more comfortable with giving them the perms. Now once they screw up, no matter how small(or large)... I take the chance to help them fix the problem and go over why they made the mistake and why it is a mistake/problem. Depending on the person, if all goes well, they learn and are better for the issue and I continue to trust them. If the don't learn... well some things will have to be re-earned. It goes without saying, you take advantage of the situation... when you are trusted... it won't be pretty. And it'll be a long time erasing that black mark. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey*
Post #129,956 by Ashton 12/9/03 10:17:15 PM Reply	Think I'd rather work for you .. but with Barry's salary (and his new rumpus/romper? Big Room) :-\ufffd Lunch time: string quartets from the local college. It's periodically been suggested, of course - - but, imagine how synergistic might be a Coalition of the er Able, from zIWE --- And yes: profitable, without being obsessed/depraved along the route to {ugh} {urp} InCorporation! Why.. just putting the Gryge's Compleat Disassembly of the Billy-Corp's Nefarious History up on the teleprompter - maybe at Esalen or other fair-weather locale, selling Seminar tickets to the genuinely Anxious-to-become Clueful: alone, might put a [1]Porsche in a few garages (and maybe a Portia, able to be afforded at last, on other plates). And that kinda pizzazz is just re the essayists about here; can't imagine what anti-chaos might be wreaked across the country - via a few techno manifestos :-0 Ho. Ho. Whoah. ..OK: some moving would be involved :( [1] the yearning-to-Be are oft well heeled, since they had to be pretty smart in the first place: for realizin they didn't know shit! really.. while still havin garnered a Big Office, along the way. And stuff.

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