Post #12,703
10/10/01 3:47:47 PM
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Which bible?
Which bible are you using?
The translation of 28:1 seems OK. Though I'm not sure how it applys to the terrorists, since I can't see how you could not describe their actions as bold.
The translation for 28:2 you give seems off though. The bibles I looked at all ran the other way on that verse, implying that many rulers are bad and that a single, wise ruler is good.
There is a very good site at [link|http://bible.gospelcom.net/|The Bible Gateway] that lets you compare the same verse in different bibles.
Jay
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Post #12,709
10/10/01 3:58:48 PM
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Yes, which bible?
Try the [link|http://www.nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/|New American Bible] sometime, seems to be different in many ways from the King James Version. Try [link|http://www.nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/psalms/psalm28.htm|PSALM 28] from the New American Bible, verses the King James Version of [link|http://aol.bartleby.com/108/19/28.html#1|PSLAM 28] NAB:
1
Of David. To you, LORD, I call; my Rock, do not be deaf to me. If you fail to answer me, I will join those who go down to the pit.
2
1 Hear the sound of my pleading when I cry to you, lifting my hands toward your holy place.
3
Do not drag me off with the wicked, with those who do wrong, Who speak peace to their neighbors though evil is in their hearts.
4
Repay them for their deeds, for the evil that they do. For the work of their hands repay them; give them what they deserve.
5
They pay no heed to the LORD'S works, to the deeds of God's hands. God will tear them down, never to be rebuilt.
6
2 Blessed be the LORD, who has heard the sound of my pleading.
7
The LORD is my strength and my shield, in whom my heart trusted and found help. So my heart rejoices; with my song I praise my God.
8
3 LORD, you are the strength of your people, the saving refuge of your anointed king.
9
Save your people, bless your inheritance; feed and sustain them forever!
KJV:
1 Unto thee will I cry, O LORD my rock;
be not silent to me:
lest, if thou be silent to me,
I become like them that go down into the pit.
2 Hear the voice of my supplications, when I cry unto thee,
when I lift up my hands toward thy holy oracle.
3 Draw me not away with the wicked,
and with the workers of iniquity,
which speak peace to their neighbors,
but mischief is in their hearts.
4 Give them according to their deeds,
and according to the wickedness of their endeavors:
give them after the work of their hands;
render to them their desert.
5 Because they regard not the works of the LORD,
nor the operation of his hands,
he shall destroy them, and not build them up.
6 Blessed be the LORD,
because he hath heard the voice of my supplications.
7 The LORD is my strength and my shield;
my heart trusted in him, and I am helped:
therefore my heart greatly rejoiceth;
and with my song will I praise him.
8 The LORD is their strength,
and he is the saving strength of his anointed.
9 Save thy people, and bless thine inheritance:
feed them also, and lift them up for ever.
Picking up the pieces of my broken life.
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Post #12,755
10/10/01 7:20:35 PM
10/11/01 12:14:28 AM
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Re: Which bible?
The New KJV, published by Nelson, personal study version.
My International bible, Scholars' edition from 1903, published by The John C. Wiston Co, has the same basic verses.
Thanks for asking these very good questions. I'll try to answer them as best I can.
"The translation of 28:1 seems OK. Though I'm not sure how it applys to the terrorists, since I can't see how you could not describe their actions as bold."
You might consider the actions by the foot soldiers as bold but other have called them cowardly, especially since the leaders who sent them to their deaths didn't shed any of their blood in the action. Where are the terrorists now? Hiding in the darkness in fear and anger. The entire world is against them and they are not welcome in any country. bin Laden even threatened that America will not have peace until Palestine has peace. Apparently he thinks Muslems don't have peace and have lots to fear. If they could get rid of the terrorists and their civil wars, they'd have much less to fear.
" The translation for 28:2 you give seems off though. The bibles I looked at all ran the other way on that verse, implying that many rulers are bad and that a single, wise ruler is good."
I don't see many rulers as perceived as bad in this verse:
[Because of the trangressions of a land, many are its princes, but by a man of understanding and knowledge, Right will be prolonged]
Many princes are needed to reduce human evil, yet also needed is understanding and knowledge, whether supplied by one person or many people working together. Maybe the wisdom and knowledge might even be supplied by one or more of the prophets in the religious texts available to us? (or from some other form?)
P.S. Yes, I may be stretching things a bit but in the long run (and with your insights) I might just discover the truth. Thanks. (:
P.S. II - Blessed are the peacemakers (Matthew 5:9.)
Edited by brettj
Oct. 11, 2001, 12:14:28 AM EDT
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Post #12,833
10/11/01 12:37:03 AM
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I can see
I can see how you might read 28:2 that way from just the NKJV. But I would still read it the other way. Rather then saying that a land that is in disorder needs many rulers, I would read it as saying that a land that is in disorder will go through many rulers.
This is clearly what the old KJV authors thought when they translated it this way When there is moral rot within a nation, its government topples easily. But with wise and knowledgeable leaders, there is stability.
Youngs Literal has it like this When a country is rebellious, it has many rulers, but a man of understanding and knowledge maintains order.
Most give the second part as refering to a single leader, but a few do render it in the plural.
As for 28:1, I can't see much cowardly about the actions of the terrorists. The only part I would call cowardly is the way that Osma Bin Laden is praising the attack, but hasn't actually taken credit for it. Considering the kind of military force against them, hiding is the only sensible option open to them.
Jay
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Post #12,840
10/11/01 1:24:57 AM
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Oh, saw, can you see?
A land going through turmoil may go through many leaders, but also will go through many citizens as well.
A company in turmoil will go through many leaders and lay off at least 10% of it's employees, mostly the ones that helped stop the company from going all the way into the crapper. PHBs can ruin a company and suck the life out of a company faster than a Black Hole can. Weap and cry for such a company, they will lose their talented employees which shall quit before management figured out that it is management that is the problem and not the employees quitting. But rather than lay off the bad managers, they keep laying off the worker bees and the people that are not making the big bone-headed mistakes that can sink a company.
Picking up the pieces of my broken life.
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Post #12,871
10/11/01 10:09:15 AM
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There is value in seeing it both ways.
I see why you questioned my translation.
I was sort of looking at the verses with a global perspective (the entire land).
Many princes are needed in order to curb human evil.
Yes, evil leaders will fall but together the group of princes with enforce justice.
Does that help you to see it from the perspective I was coming from?
Now I have two perspectives. (:
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