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New Decision Time - Next Week
Well, I got a message on my Voice Mail late Friday saying that the big company I interviewed with has an offer for me.

Problem I have is that they've been particularly cheap in their offers to others. Very big drug company.

My concern is that I took a 10% cut 2 weeks ago, and another 10% in 2001. If they ask for another 10%-15%, then we'll have to give up just about everything but groceries, gas, electric, and mortgage. If I take it.

I'm currently employed, but things aren't looking so hot for our company. Three layoff rounds in 7 months I've worked there. We only have 4 developers left.

I literally have nothing else in the works. I would seriously love it if someone else would "get interested", but it appears that isn't going to happen soon.

So, I'm left living with the 10% cut, staying where I am, and taking my chances.

Or probably take another 10% cut, and get with a large "stable" company. And "get back to the basics of life". Back to what I was making in 1997, six years ago.

Thoughts?

Glen Austin
Expand Edited by gdaustin Nov. 16, 2003, 12:10:08 AM EST
Expand Edited by gdaustin Nov. 16, 2003, 12:11:21 AM EST
New Take it
1) As mentioned, nothing is more stable in IT than work in the medical field.

2) Drug companies have the biggest lobbies in Washington - guaranteed existence.

3) Sensitivity of the information restricts possibility of outsourcing to foreigners.

4) The writing is on the wall at your current job. Read the writing.

5) You can counter-offer and ask for more, to match current wages.

I'd do the latter. Don't retrench on salary. Just be positive, yadda yadda lateral move etc. etc.

-drl
New Just a note...
1) As mentioned, nothing is more stable in IT than work in the medical field.

2) Drug companies have the biggest lobbies in Washington - guaranteed existence.
I know someone who used to work for Novartis. Until last week, when he got laid off along with another 15% of the company. Take from that what you will.
-YendorMike

[link|http://www.hope-ride.org/|http://www.hope-ride.org/]
New That's biotech
..but OK.

I used to walk by there on the way to IBM in RTP. Nice memory :)
-drl
New Novartis
What did he do?
New Re: Novartis
He's a Senior Validation Engineer. North Jersey area.

In English:

Validation is documenting evidence to a high degree of assurance that a system or process is installed/configured correctly / as designed, does what it's supposed to do, and doesn't do what it's not supposed to do, and is capable of meeting performance requirements.

He worked with everything from production/packaging systems to databases and spreadsheets to HVAC systems. Broad background.

Why?
-YendorMike

[link|http://www.hope-ride.org/|http://www.hope-ride.org/]
New duh! He's recruiting! :)
-drl
New Agreed
You hate your current job.
You hate the hours.
You hate the unreasonable expections.

Have you done any negotiations? Remember, it is an offer. They want you. They have offered what they would like to pay you. Does not mean there isn't more in the budget for the position. It also does not mean you can't change your mind if they say no. State your are willing to take a small cut to go to work for such a wonderful company with a wonderful boss and a wonderful project. Just not such a huge one.

See what happens. By making you the offer the person is already stated internally he wants you. He has fought for you. Hiring decisions are never made in a vacuum. It is likely he would lose face if he was unable to hire you.

But: Make NO noises about the difference in pay, the feeling of losing years, etc. This is emotional garbage and has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Simply state you feel you are worth more and would love to work for the guy given the right amount. Be unhappy about the possibility of turning him down since you would lose the chance to work for such a great company and boss. Play to his ego. But do not talk about your financial situation, this merely gives him leverage.

Or, make a deal for quick review. 3 months. Tell him you expect a 10% raise in 3 months or for him to fire you. Are you confident you can justify it? Then do it.
New What Ross says.
If you think you've got little bargaining power now, wait until your unemployed. :(
Alex

"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer." - Henry Kissinger
New Choose based on stability/longevity
Heck, I took a 1/3 pay cut last spring - then lost the other 2/3 at the end of august. If I get one of the things simmering I'll get my 2/3 back but I've already exhausted my liquid savings and have been nibbling at my IRA.

That's the state of the industry - down a third.

You're doing OK I think.



"I believe that many of the systems we build today in Java would be better built in Smalltalk and Gemstone."

     -- Martin Fowler, JAOO 2003
New Gave my notice today...
It was not a good day for my blood pressure. I gave my notice, then as I was going to lunch to fill out the new job's paperwork, my wife called.

She was having major stomach cramps to the point I was about ready to break the appointment and take her to the hospital. She told me to keep my appointment. I called her back after the appointment, and she was doing a little better. She told me to go back to work.

Then, I called her about 2 hours later and she was quite a bit better.

I was concerned because she's been having some abdominal pains since her ERCP a year ago to remove stones. She's already had her gall bladder out AND the ERCP to remove stones a second time. Also, she hasn't pooped in two days. She had a friend die recently of Pancreatic Cancer and she's really scared that she might have it (too much medical reading and schoolwork, IMHO).

So, I just about had a panic attack.

Earlier, when I gave notice, my boss started to prepare a counter-offer, when the CEO came in and stopped it. He said that my mind was already made up, it didn't sound like I was "on the fence".

The strange thing is that my boss and CEO both told me that my leaving was a "good decision". They gave me lots of compliments and are going to let me take the remainder of my vacation next week for Thanksgiving.

I guess it's better for me to do this than for them to "do it" to me. I'll miss my co-workers, but I do feel that the company is in trouble and it's time to move on.

The CEO wanted to try to tell me that the VC guys were prepared to put more money in the company and "be patient" for results, but I really think that if the company doesn't get some sales by year-end, it's probably over.

December is going to be a very interesting month.

Glen Austin
New What a pleasant ending to the old job.
I've heard of "Clean out the desk, now!" with an immediate escort out the door to follow. Minimize impact on morale of others, not to mention give them ideas.
Alex

"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer." - Henry Kissinger
New Got a few more days....
They want pretty extensive turnover on the system I developed, two days of training, complete document.

I've supposed to have the doc tomorrow morning, but there's no freakin' way, 'cause I'm already exhausted, got less than 6 hours of sleep last night.

It's 9pm and I'm about to pass out. Maybe I'll get up at 5am and work it some before I head off to work.

Glen Austin
New Sleep well and good luck!
New Hmmm...
...And what're they gonna do if you don't get it done? Fire you?

Sure, that's not exactly the attitude to have, but come on. You're still at work at 9pm and they want a full doc by tomorrow?
-YendorMike

[link|http://www.hope-ride.org/|http://www.hope-ride.org/]
New Doc...
Got about 5 pages done. Did a FULL day of training from 7:30am this morning to 6:10pm tonight. I want to leave it on good terms with them, and so far I think I'm doing fine.

Two and three people.

Got one more day. The boss said that I can finish the doc and mail it to him next week. If I do a good job training Seshu, then I'll probably just send in the 5 pages I've done. Otherwise, I might generate another 5-10 pages.

Glen
     Decision Time - Next Week - (gdaustin) - (15)
         Take it - (deSitter) - (6)
             Just a note... - (Yendor) - (4)
                 That's biotech - (deSitter)
                 Novartis - (broomberg) - (2)
                     Re: Novartis - (Yendor) - (1)
                         duh! He's recruiting! :) -NT - (deSitter)
             Agreed - (broomberg)
         What Ross says. - (a6l6e6x)
         Choose based on stability/longevity - (tuberculosis) - (6)
             Gave my notice today... - (gdaustin) - (5)
                 What a pleasant ending to the old job. - (a6l6e6x) - (4)
                     Got a few more days.... - (gdaustin) - (3)
                         Sleep well and good luck! -NT - (Another Scott)
                         Hmmm... - (Yendor) - (1)
                             Doc... - (gdaustin)

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