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New If you look at salaries
the J2EE developers/architects are pulling down 10-30% more cash than say people who do kernel hacking or device drivers. To me that seems wrong as the latter definitely requires more skill.

OTOH, 75% of J2EE development has nothing to do with writing code - its fucking bookkeeping - which is what makes it such a drag.

What I find interesting is that the leading app server vendor is willing to come out and say that its too complicated. You'd think they'd be more interested in maintaining the status quo. So I find the honesty refreshing.



"I believe that many of the systems we build today in Java would be better built in Smalltalk and Gemstone."

     -- Martin Fowler, JAOO 2003
Expand Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 12:46:45 PM EDT
New Since when does more skill == more profit?
New Depends on your outlook...
Making the beast perform *does* require a certain amount of skill. :-P

Of course, if you don't use EJB, a lot of the bookkeeping goes away.

BTW, good call on the Rod Johnson book. I'm digging it. He has a lot of good bad things to say about J2EE.

I'm looking into his [link|http://www.springframework.org/|Spring Framework], as well -- it's become a full-fledged open source project.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Mission statement
J
2EE should be easier to use

It's best to program to interfaces, rather than classes. Spring reduces the complexity cost of using interfaces to zero.

JavaBeans offer a great way of configuring applications.

OO design is more important than any implementation technology, such as J2EE.

Checked exceptions are overused in Java. A framework shouldn't force you to catch exceptions you're unlikely to be able to recover from.


For non-experts, could you elaborate on this, based on your experience?
-drl
New Supply and demand
Not a big call for deice driver writers or kernel hackers.
New Plus the relative supply is greater
Kernel hacking is more fun than J2EE.

Cheers,
Ben
"good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not"
- [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
New Ain't that the truth (more fun).



"I believe that many of the systems we build today in Java would be better built in Smalltalk and Gemstone."

     -- Martin Fowler, JAOO 2003
     Sun's new app server strategy - (bluke) - (11)
         Re: Sun's new app server strategy - (deSitter) - (1)
             It pays well though -NT - (tuberculosis)
         Interesting view from BEA - (tuberculosis) - (8)
             And why is that interesting? - (deSitter) - (7)
                 If you look at salaries - (tuberculosis) - (6)
                     Since when does more skill == more profit? -NT - (FuManChu)
                     Depends on your outlook... - (admin) - (1)
                         Mission statement - (deSitter)
                     Supply and demand - (broomberg) - (2)
                         Plus the relative supply is greater - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                             Ain't that the truth (more fun). -NT - (tuberculosis)

Of course the Satanists don't bother me any more ever since they did a background check on me and discovered I had three sixes in my birthdate.
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