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New FreeBSD has it's merits.
I've been using it for a few months here at work based on someone else's belief that it had a better IP stack than Linux 2.4 and that the ports system is easier to work with than .rpm files.

I dunno about the IP stack. And the ports system is nice, if a little raw in some spots compared to, day, Debian's apt system. Differences are small, but can become annoying. For instance, ps in Linux has more than 100 options; ps in FreeBSD is clearly older and has about 30. Linux has fairly stable range of tools for examining socket status. FreeBSD does too, but the names and options are different. That sort of thing.

The other big difference is that many ports put stuff into /usr/local/. There's even a /usr/local/etc. Peter is noted as intensely disliking this...

Wade.

Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
 
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please

-- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne.

New one /etc is too many
I've never bothered with it, because it's just too special.
-drl
New Better IP stack than 2.0, IIRC.


Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
New Mornin' Pete
1) Why is the IP stack rumored to be better? In all my Linux time, IP has been utterly faultless. All those net servers can't be too wrong...

2) What is your actual opinion, in detail, about BSD?
-drl
New Re: Mornin' Pete
Morning, Ross. How's tricks?

1) Why is the IP stack rumored to be better? In all my Linux time, IP has been utterly faultless. All those net servers can't be too wrong...

It was actually the fastest IP stack in the West. Nothing beat it. 2.2 and 2.4 brought Linux on par.
2) What is your actual opinion, in detail, about BSD?

Technically, it's a fine system. I have religious issues with BSD init, but that's purely a matter of opinion and what you're brought up on.

It's the implementation details and lack of system metadata that stymie me, every time I revisit FreeBSD.

1. The Ports/Packages dichotomy. BSD binary packages are not in the same database as software you install from ports. Yes, you can make a package from ports, but that sorta defeats the object of packages. Anyone who says "source 4 life" can go compile OpenOffice.org or GNOME.

2. The Base System/Everything Else dichotomy. In BSD, the actual thing called "FreeBSD" is really quite small; the kernel, the main toolchain and a few other bits and pieces. Packages/ports are not considered part of FreeBSD. While there are valid reasons for doing this (it cuts down the amount of stuff the core team have to do), it does leave packages/ports in a QA limbo. By contrast, all packages in Debian are subject to the same QA process; this makes the system consistent and deterministic.

2a. As a consequence of Everything Else not being part of BSD, it's considered to be "site local". Site local stuff goes in /usr/local. So your MTA is in /usr/local. By contrast, Debian considers /usr/local to be Out Of Bounds. It's your place to stash your shee.

3. Debian has a multitude of little things that make my life as an administrator easier. The alternatives system. Tools like deborphan. Metapackages. Debconf. None of this stuff exists in FreeBSD, and hence it feels very raw to me.

That's about it, really. I'm not going to say that FreeBSD is better or worse than Linux, because it isn't. It's different, and those differences make it unusable for me.

Edit: Forgot my manners.


Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
Expand Edited by pwhysall Nov. 14, 2003, 03:36:45 AM EST
New OpenOffice on FresBSD.
I left a PC compiling OO at work. It's a pretty modern PC, but I started it compiling the OO port about 11am and it was still compiling at 6pm. :-/

Wade.


Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
 
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please

-- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne.

New 2 and 2a are why I like the system
"You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New Assuming it's the same as on a mac ...
You can install the GNU tools and get more modern versions of 'ps' and the like. We've done this on the XServe here.
===

Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
New That sounds like a good trick.
I must try that.

I was going to file a bug against FreeBSD's ls: it doesn't have an option to sort by one of size or time - I forget which. But the bug database is accessed via a command line tool that didn't want to work.

Wade.

Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
 
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please

-- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne.

New "Its", dammit!


Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
New "Damn it", dammit!
New Sorry. And I usually get that right, too...

Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
 
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please

-- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne.

     FreeBSD has it's merits. - (static) - (11)
         one /etc is too many - (deSitter)
         Better IP stack than 2.0, IIRC. -NT - (pwhysall) - (4)
             Mornin' Pete - (deSitter) - (3)
                 Re: Mornin' Pete - (pwhysall) - (2)
                     OpenOffice on FresBSD. - (static)
                     2 and 2a are why I like the system -NT - (boxley)
         Assuming it's the same as on a mac ... - (drewk) - (1)
             That sounds like a good trick. - (static)
         "Its", dammit! -NT - (pwhysall) - (2)
             "Damn it", dammit! -NT - (FuManChu)
             Sorry. And I usually get that right, too... -NT - (static)

China!
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