Post #124,478
11/6/03 12:19:00 PM
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Arrested workers sue Wal-Mart
Nine Mexican immigrants who worked as janitors at Wal-Marts in New Jersey sued the company Wednesday, accusing Wal-Mart Stores Inc. and its cleaning contractors of failing to pay overtime, withhold taxes and make required workers' compensation contri- butions.
The plaintiffs, who face deportation for being illegal immigrants, also accuse Wal-Mart and its contractors of discriminating against them by giving them lower wages and fewer benefits than other workers because of their national origin.
[...]
The lawsuit said, "Wal-Mart, knowingly and with the intention to defraud the United States Government and the plaintiffs and in order to save money on cleaning service contract contractors," employed certain cleaning contractors, "with full knowledge" that these contractors would pay the illegal immigrants far less than they would have paid legal workers.
[link|http://www.statesman.com/business/content/auto/epaper/editions/thursday/business_f39affaad523223c00c2.html|source] lincoln
"Windows XP has so many holes in its security that any reasonable user will conclude it was designed by the same German officer who created the prison compound in "Hogan's Heroes." - Andy Ihnatko, Chicago Sun-Times
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Post #124,488
11/6/03 12:58:17 PM
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Don't know what to make of this....
The lawsuit said, "Wal-Mart, knowingly and with the intention to defraud the United States Government and the plaintiffs and in order to save money on cleaning service contract contractors," employed certain cleaning contractors, "with full knowledge" that these contractors would pay the illegal immigrants far less than they would have paid legal workers.
That is a legimate concern for a lawsuit. However, the plantiffs are 9 illegal immigrants. They (imho) CANNOT sue. They should be immediately and without question kicked out of the courthouse and helped via immigration officials out of the country. Sad.
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Post #124,498
11/6/03 1:51:20 PM
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They certainly can sue
They have basis in the juristiction, ergo they can sue.
The fact that they cannot be physically present due to immigration problems has no bearing, so long as they can pick up TelMex and call a lawyer somewhere.
jb4
"There are two ways for you to have lower Prescription-drug costs. One is you could hire Rush Limbaugh's housekeeper ... or you can elect me President."
John Kerry
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Post #124,523
11/6/03 4:49:46 PM
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Not sure I buy that one....
They have basis in the juristiction, ergo they can sue.
Certain the offense occured in the juristiction - but do they have any right to the legal recourse in that juristiction? Do you, as a US citizen have the legal recourse (right?) to sue someone in say Mexico for an action committed in that country? Usually the point is moot, as unless that person is in the country the case never comes before a trial anyway. (And the exceptions are usually so extreme as to warrent approval of the case purely for political reasons.) But here we have individuals who are here illegally. Do they have the right to bring charges in a US Civil court that they were mistreated? (Ignoring, also, their own cupability to the crime is icing on the cake)
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Post #124,525
11/6/03 4:52:15 PM
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Cool, bring on the underage hookers
After all, if they're here illegally they can't press charges, right?
===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
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Post #124,538
11/6/03 5:20:59 PM
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Not quite.
Even if they have no rights locally, using one still gets you in trouble for a) solicitation and b) child rape.
Child rape is a FELONY, boyo, and you'll be doing time in federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison for that one.
And I sure as hell wouldn't weep for ya. ;)
In that final hour, when each breath is a struggle to take, and you are looking back over your life's accomplishments, which memories would you treasure? The empires you built, or the joy you spread to others?
Therin lies the true measure of a man.
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Post #124,635
11/7/03 1:39:35 PM
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Yeah yeah ... and it's criminal not civil
Point is, just because the victim is foreign doesn't automatically mean the perp gets away with it.
===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
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Post #124,526
11/6/03 4:52:16 PM
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Do rights accrue to persons
or only citizens?
Sure they can sue. There are US lumber companies trying to sue various provincial gov'ts up here all the time.
You want to watch it... if you take away the right to sue in this case, you're getting ready to set up a labour system that edges a lot closer to slavery than perhaps one might like.
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Post #124,530
11/6/03 4:57:19 PM
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Well,
I know for a fact that if I have basis for a suit in Germany, for instance, I can press that case in the German courts. I will need a German rechtsanwalt naturally, but that doesn't mean I can't bring the suit. And I don't even have to have set foot in Germany to file the suit; all I need is legal basis for the suit (in the eyes of German law, of course)
jb4
"There are two ways for you to have lower Prescription-drug costs. One is you could hire Rush Limbaugh's housekeeper ... or you can elect me President."
John Kerry
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Post #124,533
11/6/03 5:05:54 PM
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Mumbo-legal rationalizations all -
Euphemism - don't enter the US without it + a glossary.
The *fact* that the US could not operate! from food harvesting through {name yer un-fav dirty jobs} without 24/7 "illegal" {wink wink nud} "aliens" - -
is, I believe, in the favored obscurant dead-language of The Court,
Prima Facie.
Let's see where This Case gets laterally arabesqued into non-coverage limbo, minute by minute. Will we hear word-one by say, December?
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Post #124,554
11/6/03 10:03:35 PM
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I cite a case
where an illegal immigrant won the lottery in California. They discovered he was illegal and sent him back to Mexico. He sued to get his winnings back and won. So it is possible to sue from Mexico and not be a US Citizen.
I hope that Wal-Mart suffers for this, would send a signal to other corps not to abuse the system in that way.
"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"
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Post #124,489
11/6/03 12:58:37 PM
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Editorial on the subject from Atlanta's newspaper
Wal-Mart, the biggest retailer on the planet, is admired by cost-conscious consumers, feared by competitors and famous for keeping profits up and costs down. An irresistible force in the business world, Wal-Mart is known for having its way, regardless of obstacles. But Wal-Mart has found one thing it cannot do, at least not so far.
It can't stop profiting from the abuse of undocumented workers.
In a raid of 60 Wal-Mart stores on Oct. 23, federal agents arrested 250 illegal workers, mostly working as night clean-up and maintenance crews. They are the kinds of jobs that can be done even by employees who lack English language skills. Typically the workers were paid sub-minimum wages and without customary job benefits. In other words, they were cheap employment that gave Wal-Mart a considerable cost advantage over competitors who follow the rules.
Trying to defend themselves, Wal-Mart executives say the workers are brought to them by contractors and are not direct hires, implying that should absolve the company of blame and legal exposure. The question arises: Would Wal-Mart defend itself the same way if its customers complained of shoddy hammers or tainted produce? Would they shrug and dump the blame on distributors and middlemen, or would they take responsibility for fixing the problem?
Here's the rub: The issue is not new to Wal-Mart. On several previous occasions, beginning in 1998, the company had been hit by roundups of undocumented workers, giving it plenty of reason to be aware of the problem and plenty of time to tighten practices to stay out of trouble. Federal law enforcement officials -- dubbing their probe "Operation Rollback" -- are investigating whether the company knowingly allowed the use of illegal workers, which could expose Wal-Mart to criminal prosecution.
Privately, Wal-Mart officials wonder why hundreds of federal agents were stalking the company rather than tending to bigger business. That's akin to the busted motorist who asks why the traffic cop isn't out catching "real crooks." It is not a defense of wrongdoing, not now, never has been.
lincoln
"Windows XP has so many holes in its security that any reasonable user will conclude it was designed by the same German officer who created the prison compound in "Hogan's Heroes." - Andy Ihnatko, Chicago Sun-Times
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Post #124,588
11/7/03 9:56:22 AM
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While Wal-Mart may not be the greatest
the other company is the one liable for hiring the illegal aliens.
I checked with our HR department - the shift of the legal resposiblity is one of the reasons our company uses an outside agency for our production floor workers.
Darrell Spice, Jr. [link|http://www.spiceware.org/cgi-bin/spa.pl?album=./Artistic%20Overpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
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Post #124,611
11/7/03 12:03:21 PM
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But they knew about it
as the phone conversations between managers at Wal-Mart and the Contracting Company were recorded. They knew the people were illegal that were hired for the work, but did nothing to stop it. I think there is some liability there like an accessory.
"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"
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Post #124,625
11/7/03 12:37:47 PM
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where does it say that?
I don't see anything about recordings in that article. I see "Wal-Mart must have known about these violations," said Gilberto Garcia, the immigrants' lawyer saying that Wal-Mart "must-have-known" is not the same as saying or proving that they "did-know".
The law seems pretty clear that the employer is the one responsible for verifying Employement Eligibility(I-9). Even though these people worked in a Wal-Mart facility, they worked for the cleaning company.
Darrell Spice, Jr. [link|http://www.spiceware.org/cgi-bin/spa.pl?album=./Artistic%20Overpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
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Post #124,633
11/7/03 1:36:57 PM
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In the previous article
This is the ZIWE post: [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=122571|http://z.iwethey.org...?contentid=122571] It has this link: [link|http://www.suntimes.com/output/business/wal24.html|http://www.suntimes....siness/wal24.html] It did say that the government had the Wal-Mart manager's phones tapped and heard the conversations between the managers and the contract company. That they knew the cleaners were illegal immigrants. Of course now the article is gone! Thanks Suntimes! Anyone have another source for this article? I found this one: [link|http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dsbiz/241bd1.htm|http://www.dailysout.../dsbiz/241bd1.htm]
The workers were members of cleaning crews hired by outside contractors, but federal law enforcement officials said Wal-Mart had direct knowledge of the immigration violations. They cited recordings of meetings and conversations among Wal-Mart executives, managers and contractors.
[link|http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/beaconnews/archives/a24walmart.htm|http://www.suburbanc...es/a24walmart.htm]
The workers were members of cleaning crews hired by outside contractors, but federal law-enforcement officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said Wal-Mart had direct knowledge of the immigration violations.
They cited recordings of meetings and conversations among Wal-Mart executives, managers and contractors.
Of course Wal-Mart denies it, and claims they haven't seen the evidence yet to support it.
"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"
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Post #124,652
11/7/03 3:34:19 PM
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These stories imply previous knowledge
on the part of Wal-Mart executives:
In addition to the arrests, federal agents also searched a midlevel executive's office at Wal-Mart's Bentonville, Ark., headquarters, leaving with boxes of files, the company said.
[link|http://www.ajc.com/print/content/epaper/editions/today/business_f31a7f9f94e731890076.html|Atlanta Journal-Constitution]
Wal-Mart denies it knew that subcontractors were hiring illegal immigrants, in this case mostly from Mexico. Federal agents say they have wiretaps proving otherwise.
[link|http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-0311010220nov01,1,7806645.story|Chicago Tribune]
But two federal law enforcement officials said in interviews that Wal-Mart executives must have known about the immigration violations because federal agents rounded up 102 illegal immigrant janitors at Wal-Marts in 1998 and 2001. In the October raid, federal agents searched the office of an executive at Wal-Mart's headquarters, carting away boxes of papers. Federal officials said prosecutors had wiretaps and recordings of conversations between Wal-Mart officials and subcontractors.
[link|http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/05/national/05WALM.html|NY Times]
As Orion has discovered, links can disappear too quickly when a story has "legs". lincoln
"Windows XP has so many holes in its security that any reasonable user will conclude it was designed by the same German officer who created the prison compound in "Hogan's Heroes." - Andy Ihnatko, Chicago Sun-Times
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Post #124,679
11/7/03 8:59:33 PM
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Thanx for the links
Sounds like it's more than just Wal-Mart Wal-Mart is not the only retailer to use questionable cleaning contractors. Hundreds of Mexican immigrants have sued three California supermarket chains, charging them with hiring contractors that never gave a night off, did not pay overtime and often paid less than the minimum wage. Any knowledge on how this lawsuit panned out? Darrell Spice, Jr. [link|http://www.spiceware.org/cgi-bin/spa.pl?album=./Artistic%20Overpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
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