Post #1,223
7/9/01 8:49:53 PM
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Presario 7110US, 17", color printer. $1499.97 Deal?
Hi All,
The PC buying bug is gnawing at me and won't let go.
In this week's BestBuy flyer there's an ad for a Compaq system which seems *very* appealing:
Presario 7110US:
1.3 GHz Athlon
256 MB DDR RAM
60 GB HD
16x DVD-ROM
8x CD-RW
V.90 modem
10/100 ethernet
64 MB nVidia video with TV-out
SB-128 audio
IEEE-1394 (firewire)
JBL speakers
SmartCard USB keyboard
17" flat-screen Compaq monitor
Compaq IJ-600 color printer
$1799.99 - $100 BestBuy rebate - $200 Compaq bundle rebate = $1499.97
I think the monitor is overpriced (Compaq wants $400 for it at their refurbished store), and I don't really care about the printer. The parts are obviously not Plextor and the like....
But in pricing a roughly similar Athon DDR system with similar features I can't come close to the price. It really seems to be an appealing system.
It's a 7000-series Presario so it has 3-5&1/4" external bays (versus 2 for the 5000 series models). I got my mom a refurbished 5000 a few weeks ago and it seems to be a nice system. But I haven't taken the cover off the chassis yet...
I'd probably eventually install Win2K on it (it comes with WinMe). The only incompatibility I know if is the keyboard. It's a USB jobby which has lots and lots of "1-button access" buttons which Win2K doesn't support. No big loss as far as I can tell...
I like having built-in Firewire, though add-on cards can be had for as little as $20 so it's not a huge plus...
I've checked out prices at TheChipMerchant and AffordableComputers and nothing could touch this system price. Even systems with SDRAM were more expensive. Compaq seems to be trying to increase their services revenue, so maybe they're clearing out systems or something...
What do you folks think of this? Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #1,239
7/9/01 10:12:41 PM
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Sounds good.
"All around me are nothing but fakes
Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"
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Post #1,243
7/9/01 10:45:39 PM
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Wondering re Compaq
If they've had clue-blows applied re proprietary hdwre? - needing special cases, fasteners and the like? (I realize they can no longer er customize the actual guts - and get away with it..)
My last run-in had to do with an old laptop needing a new m/board in final weeks of warranty - and several of their VPs spending about $500 in wasted time on series of phone chats, explaining why:
I could *NOT* pay the delta-$ for obtaining the exact same M/board (both of which were in *stock then) - except second one had a cache and my broken one didn't (!) It's Company Policy\ufffd that we do not upgrade systems [Oh Gawd - yes, exact words; never mind, well.. is the customer ever Right here?]
*in fact - they had several of the better ones; only one or 2 of mine!
I checked first.
I called a friend and next the Priv. Sec. of the Swiss? German? Pfeiffer-guy running the joint then; put on sweet reasonable voice and explained to her my er Problem. She was amicable and I think - persuaded I was asking a reasonably small alteration of CPolicy..
She got back and said that, The Great Man said.. [see above] {sigh}
ie a thoroughly unimaginitive organization in that, and other experiences. (Canon BTW - precise opposite, also Honda also Norton Motors)
Good luck then, with the New Cpq :-)
Ashton
yes.. left bad taste, perhaps obsolescent now (?)
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Post #1,379
7/10/01 10:31:11 PM
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My mom's Presario 5000 seems pretty standard.
It does have the usual Compaq strangeness of giving no indication of how to call up the CMOS settings on boot - but that might also be a WinMe "feature". I'm sure it's buried in the CD-ROM documentation somewhere.
I've finally cracked the case of my mom's 5WV280 system mentioned earlier (here or on ezboard). It's an Athlon 900/128/30/nVidia VANTA LT TNT2 8 MB video/CD/CD-RW/10-100 NIC/56k modem/Logitech QuickCam/etc. for $629 refurbished from Compaq.
It seems to use a Compaq "UWAVE" motherboard. It's got at least a partial VIA chipset (VT82C686A). There's another part of the chipset which is under a heatsink. The Athlon 900 has a giant fan/heatsink (TaiSol). There are lots of electrolytic capacitors around the Athlon, so they seem to have taken voltage regulation seriously. The board is around 9.5" square and seems to be fairly ATX standard layout. I don't have enough experience to know how standard it really is though...
The system has 1 free PCI slot (1 taken by the NIC, 1 taken by the modem) - 4 slots total (3 PCI, 1 AGP). It's got 3 RAM DIMM sockets, one taken by a DIMM with Infineon chips. It's got 1-3.5" internal HD bay free and 1-3.5" external bay free.
The power supply is 250 W.
It seems like a reasonable system, but I can't see the brand of parts used for the CD, CD-RW, HD without disassembling it more....
I noticed on Compaq's web page that the 7110US system (discussed at the start of this thread) is supposed to be available for $1299 (without monitor and speakers) at Compaq retailers. Man, they're not making it easy for me to resist....
Thanks for all the comments.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #1,307
7/10/01 12:23:51 PM
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Careful...
...these machines have a tendency of coming off the line maxed on IRQs.
Upgrading or changing things may/may not void the warranty.
And Presario's have had some pretty well documented motherboard issues in the past.
It does sound like a pretty good deal...but in my experience these systems have to be bought on an "as is and will always be" basis instead of an "as is and I'll add that later" basis.
Um...er...well...
I have no choice!
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #1,326
7/10/01 3:18:52 PM
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IRQs only an issue for ISA peripherals.
--
Peter
Shill For Hire
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Post #1,349
7/10/01 6:37:20 PM
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Umm could you expand on that?
What does PCI, AGP substitute for the er eternal Interrupt? ESP?
(I think I understand 'interrupts' - the PDP-8 was described in first sentence as, an interrupt-driven minicomputer... so what am I missing?)
(Ignorant guess: PnP / Windoze makes their own up, outta hype + saved glitches from deceased tasks - stored in an .idx file (#237) for later usage. Each one has to be Registered, of course, so that no OS-interrupts may be used, or ones from an unRegistered second machine :-)
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Post #1,361
7/10/01 8:39:36 PM
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Brother, can you spare an IRQ?
I think he means that PCI cards use a different method of assigning IRQs than ISA cards. It depends on the BIOS really and the motherboard hardware. Some IRQs are assigned to certain slots, it seems, and if you move the card you can change the IRQ it uses.
| "I can see if I want anything done right around here, I'll have to do it myself!" | Moe Howard |
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Post #1,374
7/10/01 10:13:14 PM
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PCI's designed to share IRQs. BUT...
like most PC hardware, there are exceptions.
Here's a good page with info on IRQ sharing on the PCI bus, with an emphasis on problems NICs can have.
[link|http://personal.bellsouth.net/sdf/h/b/hburgiss/dsl/survival/irq.htm| [link|http://personal.bellsouth.net/sdf/h/b/hburgiss/dsl/survival/irq.htm|http://personal.bel...ival/irq.htm]]
Basically, IIRC, the PCI bus is more sophisticated than the old ISA bus in that it can discrimiate between two devices raising the same interrupt signal. Edge- versus level-triggering seems to raise a flag with me. Check Google for more details...
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #1,382
7/10/01 10:43:36 PM
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Good crib sheet..
Thanks. Saved.
Interesting re SBLive stealing an Irq for DOS use - about which Windoze is oblivious!
Also noted my E-machine has modem in 1st PCI slot adjacent to AGP! but - works like charm.
Good reminder too, to make sure I remembered to disable the secondary IDE and second floppy in BIOS in the new boxes.
Now as to edge VS level- triggering (??) - fer us scope types that rings a bell, but also a bit sophisticated for a toy box I'd a thunk: that is, for it to reliably discriminate / flip - for one trigger-level setting VS a slightly different criterion. At a 100 - 200 MHz bus rate, say !
(If you find that ref, be curious how they Do that.)
Thanx,
A.
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Post #1,384
7/10/01 11:03:08 PM
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Edge versus Level triggering of interrupts...
I misrememberd. ISA uses edge, PCI uses level.
[link|http://mailman.real-time.com/pipermail/linux-kernel/2001-March/023682.html|Here's] a bit I found about it. I'm no expert on this stuff. There should be better info out there - especially on Intel's site.
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #1,390
7/11/01 1:05:13 AM
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See what you mean. Heh! an analog! e- problem..
If my reading between lines is close enough:
What he's calling "edge" triggering is.. that sort of detector, commonly using a Schmitt Trigger circuit: a feedback device which enhances the risetime via.. yup pos feedback! to give a thus faster dV/dt as a trigger pulse. What he calls "level triggering" implies an intentionally 'slower" device which is not concerned with dV/dt so much as just "change state when V= x.yz V".
Guess I'll poke around a bit; hard to see how same line from an "Irq detector" under s/w control - could parse the two - but it seems that the Vectra didn't.. too well. How'd ya find That!?
(It's amazing the amount of stuff you can see with a real analog GHz scope on these boards - let alone decipher)
A.
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Post #1,395
7/11/01 3:07:09 AM
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IRQ Sharing In Action
Here's my IRQ layout, as reported by Windows 2000:
IRQ Number\tDevice
9\tMicrosoft ACPI-Compliant System
11\tNVIDIA RIVA TNT2/TNT2 Pro
11\tIntel 82371AB/EB PCI to USB Universal Host Controller
11\tVortex Multifunction PCI Parent
11\tAureal Vortex 8830 Audio (WDM)
11\t3Com EtherLink XL PCI TPC NIC (3C900B-TPC) #2
11\tMass Storage Controller
15\tSecondary IDE Channel
8\tSystem CMOS/real time clock
13\tNumeric data processor
6\tStandard floppy disk controller
4\tCommunications Port (COM1)
3\tCommunications Port (COM2)
1\tStandard 101/102-Key or Microsoft Natural PS/2 Keyboard
Note all that stuff going through IRQ 11. I'll also free up another IRQ when I gets me a PS/2 -> USB adapter for this here IBM keyboard. --
Peter
Shill For Hire
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Post #1,663
7/13/01 12:16:19 AM
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Re: IRQ Sharing is a two edged sword.
It's nice that a number of devices can share an interrupt - you can have more devices.
It's bad because when an interrupt occurs, you don't know who (i.e. which device) caused it or why. On an interrupt, additional interrupts are automatically disabled - interrupt handlers aren't themselves interrupted. The interrupt handlers of the associated device drivers for an IRQ are started one at a time, probably in the same sequence each time, and interrogate the associated device to see if it was the one that caused the interrupt. If not, the next device's interrupt handler is started. If so, the event is recorded, the interrupt condition in that device is reset, the next operation if any may be started, and interrupts re-enabled. If other devices had a pending interrupt the interrupt handling process (as above) would start again. Otherwise, whatever process was originally interrupted would resume.
The disadvantages of sharing interrupts are that 1) it takes longer to figure out what caused an interrupt and 2) that some devices, in effect, get preferential treatment. For good performance, it's important to arrange the sequence of device drivers so that the most frequently interrupting devices are serviced earlier.
Alex
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Post #2,173
7/17/01 11:49:10 PM
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Amiga also shared IRQs
The IRQ number was related to the priority of the interrupt. I recall that the serial port operated on 2 IRQs - the higher priority IRQ was for receiving, the lower one for sending.
Darrell Spice, Jr.
[link|http://home.houston.rr.com/spiceware/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
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Post #2,103
7/17/01 5:10:45 PM
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B*llsh*t.
Theory says they can and should share; practice says they could have and don't.
qts
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Post #2,105
7/17/01 5:14:26 PM
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Some devices do not work well with others
like Modems for example, whenever I get a modem that shares an IRQ with another device, I get lockups in the Microsoft Dial-up networking, Procomm Plus, Hyper Terminal, etc.
They don't call it "Plug and Pray" for nothing. Almost enough to make you want to go out a buy a Macintosh and run OSX. :)
| "I can see if I want anything done right around here, I'll have to do it myself!" | Moe Howard |
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Post #2,156
7/17/01 10:30:27 PM
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Why...________________________________"almost"____??
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Post #2,195
7/18/01 11:09:22 AM
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Why almost?
Well let's see some reasons why:
#1 Macintosh hardware usually costs more than the PC systems I can build by my hand.
#2 Macintosh hardware does not have as long a warranty as PC hardware. 1 Year verses 3 (sometimes 5) Years in most cases.
#3 Low end Mac hardware, such as the iMac, are not that easy to upgrade. Try getting a new motherboard and CPU for a $1299 iMac, verses the $799 generic ATX PC cased system. How about upgrading the video, audio, and adding a few more drives to an iMac verses the ATX system? Here comes the money! :)
#4 Virtual PC emulators are fine if you only have a few programs to run under it, but if you have over a dozen you might as well have a PC system run it.
#5 I've been burned by Apple and Apple tech support in the past. Just dealing with a different devil than Microsoft. :)
#6 I'd rather reformat and use Linux or OpenBSD instead, that way I don't need to change out all my hardware.
#7 I usually find a way around "Plug and Pray" by changing settings to "Manual" in the BIOS setup and changing the IRQs that each slot can use in the CMOS setup.
Of course these are just my reasons. I almost bought a grape 266Mhz iMac, but the guy almost wanted the "New" price for it despite it being a few years old already. At first he wanted $400, but kept raising the price. So I told him to forget it. Maybe one day, when I find one affordable, I'll have one to mess around with. I still have an old Macintosh SE and IIcx to use, I almost donated them to a church. They share a keyboard and mouse, ADB of course. I have a Mac to VGA adapter that I use with the IIcx. :)
| "I can see if I want anything done right around here, I'll have to do it myself!" | Moe Howard |
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Post #2,241
7/18/01 3:52:58 PM
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OK though not compelling for a non-techno wanting stability.
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Post #2,252
7/18/01 4:53:39 PM
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You want stability for a non-techno?
Get a Nintendo 64, its cheaper and the games are better. Plus you can turn it off during a game and not foul up the OS. While you cannot do your taxes on it, or surf the web, for the gamers it will work fine.
But yeah, I can see the case for Macs and OSX to a non-techno who doesn't know any better.
| "I can see if I want anything done right around here, I'll have to do it myself!" | Moe Howard |
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Post #2,174
7/17/01 11:53:51 PM
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Keyboard should be fine
At work I've got a Microsoft split keyboard(but not the USB version) and am running W2K. I downloaded an updated driver from Microsoft to enable the extra keys. I find some of the keys useful, the media controls for WinAMP and the calculator button.
Darrell Spice, Jr.
[link|http://home.houston.rr.com/spiceware/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
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