I don't think that's entirely fair.

Post #118,118 by mmoffitt 9/18/03 12:58:40 PM Reply	I don't think that's entirely fair. And I'm glad you're talking to me. The way Clinton avoided duty is vastly less perverse than the way Dubya did. I don't know him personally, but I do know that many who did not serve in Viet Nam chose not to because of a conscientous objection. The majority? I doubt it. But there were some. IMO Clinton can claim the moral ground here because he never pretended to serve. He never used Daddy's influence to get himself in the Champaign Division of the National Guard. AND - MOST IMPORTANTLY - HE NEVER WENT AWOL. Did he lie about getting a hummer? Yes, what married man wouldn't? If you were ever going to tell a lie, that'd be the time you did it. What else did he lie about? Not inhaling? I actually believe him on that one. I know it's possible, I've seen it done. I can see how a country kid from Arkansas would yield to peer pressure enough to take an offered joint, puff on it and not inhale. What's so unbelievable about that? But did he lie about anything of substance? I don't think so. Contrast these lies of his with lying about WMD which resulted in an unjust war and cost thousands of lives (including hundreds of American lives - and more are dying every day or two). Then tell me the difference of scale doesn't put these two in completely different categories. Both are "monstrous egotist"s but name me a person who even runs for the highest office in the land who isn't? You can only hold Clinton vile for this reason if you hold that ALL our Presidents were vile. (A point I'm reluctant to dispute except to say that surely Jimmy Carter wasn't vile.) I'll concede "a propensity for whore-mongering" would cause me to call him "vile". But that reason alone is insufficient. Sorry to hear you were ill. Hope you're feeling better. bcnu, Mikem The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism. - Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
Post #118,157 by Ashton 9/18/03 6:09:36 PM Reply	I'd second your brief comparo, FWIW. But believe there are MANY (too many to list) obv Differences in their characters, their 'beliefs' (which we only ever can get via osmosis and discrimination) - than your OK but brief listing. as in.. All Generalizations Are False cha cha & cha Ashton
Post #118,207 by mmoffitt 9/19/03 12:00:38 PM Reply	I was brief on purpose this time. And only considered the differences Ross listed ;0) bcnu, Mikem The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism. - Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
Post #119,146 by deSitter 9/26/03 9:45:51 PM Reply	Re: I don't think that's entirely fair. Having a large healthy Freudian ego (a vague term in any case) is not being a "monstrous egotist". An egotist is one who has himself as his primary agenda. Most American Presidents do not fit this bill - I can think of Jackson, Buchanan, A. Johnson, T. Roosevelt, Nixon, Clinton, and Bush the Idiot. In stark contrast - Washington, who dreaded the job, Lincoln, who genuinely wanted to help his suffering people, Grant, who was the most decent of men and who wanted to serve as best he could, F. Roosevelt, who was in a similar situation as Lincoln, Eisenhower, who reminds me of Grant, and Kennedy, who had real vision and optimism in an impossible time. Clinton and Bush are in my estimation the perfect representatives of a miserable generation, totally self-obsessed and lacking in any coherent vision that results in sane policy. -drl

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