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New Talk XP or Do XP?
The last two places I've been asked for the results of XP, but were completely unwilling to put forth the practices to even get "XP Quality".

1. A former employer wanted programming pairs. Not two equals, but a junior programmer to a senior programmer. This is mentoring or training, not XP.

2. Most of my projects the last two jobs have been very deadline driven. Basically, "I want X in Y days." Y has never been longer than 2 weeks. X has always been a release-level enhancement. Maybe XP, but let's at least talk some reasonable estimates.

3. XP says to create test cases, then build the code to pass all the test cases (or fail appropriately). While I tend to code this way, test cases never seem to get the status of code or data. They don't get checked into libraries for re-use, for example.

4. Code reviews weren't ever in the mix in the last two jobs, so occasional pair programming was the best we could do. I mean occasional, as in, "Mike, I'm struggling a little figuring this out, why don't you sit with me a few hours and we'll put our heads together". As soon as the boss found out, he'd break it up. The person "asking" for the pair was seen as a weak team member.

In the end, I think, in small shops, you're just lucky to get anything done at all. You completely rely on the depth of your senior team members, and you hope they have enough breadth and depth to get it done. Sometimes, they do. Sometimes, they don't.

So, when people talk about "XP Failures", I think the failure is more likely "Talk XP, Do Something Else" than "Do XP".

Most senior managers I know of are SO results oriented, they don't care if it came from a monkey grinder as long as it achieves results.

Glen Austin

New The project that failed in the paper...
Had Ken Beck, with other XP gurus, involved. I found that pretty interesting.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Re: The project that failed in the paper...
I wish you code heads would write up your own viewpoints.
-drl
New Re: The project that failed in the paper...
Had Ken Beck, with other XP gurus, involved. I found that pretty interesting.

The failure of the C3 project cannot be isolated to any single problem, but the biggest factors were political infighting and organizational issues rather than any problem with the code. The according to Jeffries the project was delivering, was solid and was meeting goals. (unlike the statements in the referenced paper).

Some of the things that effected its cancellation was that the dept that stated the project (R&D IIRC) was was trying to pass C3 to another dept (Payroll I believe), which didn't want to pay for it. There was also some question at the time about merging Chryslers and Daimlers payroll operations, so there was additional uncertainty about continuing a project that didn't have a future. I recall there are extensive writeups about the C3 project at the C2 wiki (what's up with all the Cn names?). Check it out, but beware, there is a lot of speculation from parties not directly involved.

C3 continued to pay a significant number of employees for years after it was "cancelled". Additionally, Chrysler continues to use XP in some of its projects (again in contrast to statements in the referenced paper).
--
-- Jim Weirich jweirich@one.net [link|http://onestepback.org|http://onestepback.org]
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"Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct,
not tried it." -- Donald Knuth (in a memo to Peter van Emde Boas)
     Extreme Programming Considered Harmful - (admin) - (12)
         Talk XP or Do XP? - (gdaustin) - (3)
             The project that failed in the paper... - (admin) - (2)
                 Re: The project that failed in the paper... - (deSitter)
                 Re: The project that failed in the paper... - (JimWeirich)
         Differences in Software Systems and Software Development - (Simon_Jester) - (1)
             Risk Management - (gdaustin)
         His unanswered questions list - (Arkadiy)
         Re: Extreme Programming Considered Harmful - (JimWeirich) - (2)
             Precisely -NT - (tuberculosis)
             Jeffries' review of "Extreme Programming Refactored" - (JimWeirich)
         Everything Considered Harmful - (ChrisR)
         The good thing about XP is that... - (tablizer)

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