Post #108,702
7/8/03 12:54:10 PM
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Candidate Abuse and Death By Interview
[link|http://www.erexchange.com/articles/db/25C884E0E7DB4347AE51C46F362B85F9.asp|article]
We frequently read about such things as animal abuse or alcohol abuse. But one of the least talked about forms of abuse that occurs on a daily basis is "candidate abuse" during the interview and hiring process.
With the economy slow and jobs scarce, candidate abuse is increasingly common. Companies have become arrogant in how they treat candidates, and with HR often taking a "my way or the highway" approach to applicants. Corporate cutbacks also mean fewer well-trained recruiters who know how to treat the candidates correctly. At the same time, the candidate's themselves have become more willing to take this abuse because the current scarcity of job puts them at the mercy of hiring managers and recruiters.
In the business world, it's not uncommon for individuals with power to take full advantage of it. But in this case, might doesn't make right.
lincoln
"Four score and seven years ago, I had a better sig"
[link|http://users3.ev1.net/~bconnors/resume.htm|VB/SQL resume]
[link|http://users3.ev1.net/~bconnors/tandem_resume.htm|Tandem resume]
[link|mailto:bconnors@ev1.net|contact me]
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Post #108,704
7/8/03 1:08:44 PM
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Unintended irony there
HR needs to learn how to duplicate the level of customer service that is usually provided by the sales, customer support, and product service departments.
Dunno about the need, but I think they are trying to get down there...
Cheers,
Ben
"good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not"
- [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
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Post #108,710
7/8/03 1:30:31 PM
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What I don't understand...
If the company is not interested in candidates for positions, then why not simply post (both on the Internet and in the company HR dept) that the company does not currently have any positions available.
I think, by law, no one can be refused a job application, if they show up during the posted hours that applications for employment are accepted.
If the company is interested in someone "special", then they should advertise just in the media that they are interested in hiring from (ie. if you're looking for SAP people, advertise in an SAP publication, and at SAP news groups ).
I think HR people just don't use any common sense about this stuff. No need to abuse or be rude, just tell the truth. We're not hiring, unless you have a specific narrow skill set we are looking for.
All I can figure is that either there are some dumb laws out there that prevent them from being straight with potential employees, or these people are either disingenuous (double talk experts) or just don't care.
Probably, the truth is that they are looking for people in their early-20's with 10 years of SAP experience for an EIS integration project and expect these people to be Oracle DBAs, have 5 years of COBOL, and 8 years of Java. Now, go find THAT person!
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Post #108,723
7/8/03 4:28:51 PM
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No offense to the HR grunts out there...
but the average HR person doesn't know what a SAP is, much less whether or not there's a DBA, programmer, script king or system admin for it.
Some of the silliness of job postings (requiring 4 years of .NET experience, etc.) come from HR - some of it comes from the managers of the division.
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Post #108,741
7/8/03 6:20:52 PM
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But...
Is it too much to ask a hiring manager to know at least remotely about the positions and technology he/she's hiring for?
It's funny because I've been in these situations where the HR people want "exactly" the skills in the posted job description, then the hiring manager realizes he's only going to get some of the skills, but the HR person never gets him any "qualified" candidates. Then the hiring manager brings in a commissioned recruiter (basically because the HR person can't do their job).
Sometimes, it's even more comical because the commissioned recruiter can't even get decent people in the door.
Glen Austin
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Post #108,828
7/9/03 10:59:53 AM
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Saw this in person
I worked with a guy who came in through a recruiter to the manager that I was reporting to. After his first day, he went home, opened the mail, and saw a rejection letter from the HR department, saying that "he didn't have the skills they were looking for in a candidate for this position". He brought the letter in to work the next day, and our manager spent over an hour down in HR trying to get them to get their act together for his new employee.
Too funny, but also too sad.
lincoln
"Four score and seven years ago, I had a better sig"
[link|http://users3.ev1.net/~bconnors/resume.htm|VB/SQL resume]
[link|http://users3.ev1.net/~bconnors/tandem_resume.htm|Tandem resume]
[link|mailto:bconnors@ev1.net|contact me]
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Post #108,957
7/10/03 1:58:02 AM
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Happened to me
Rejected by USWest shortly after starting to work there as an employee of Andersen Consulting.
"One of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that,
lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination
of their C programs."
-- Robert Firth
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Post #108,992
7/10/03 10:32:51 AM
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You mean that you were an
Arthur Android?
Respect -2 notches ;-b
When they took the Fourth Amendment, I was quiet because I didn't deal drugs.
When they took the Fifth Amendment, I was quiet because I was innocent.
When they took the Second Amendment, I was quiet because I didn't own a gun.
Now they've taken the First Amendment, and I can't say anything about it.
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Post #109,169
7/11/03 3:33:52 AM
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Sort of
In the early 90's AC got caught with their pants down. They had this great assembly line churning out mainframe programmers when suddenly they found clients demanding this new OO stuff. C++ specifically. So they launched a sort of subsidiary that hired "experienced" (AC speak for "tainted" I believe) people and called them the Systems Resources Group. We had skills to share and a glass ceiling over our heads. I stayed 2.5 years on the same contract at US West - then bailed for double money when they suggested that the next contract was 100% travel to San Ramon, CA.
I did get C++ code reviews from Scott Meyers himself while working there. Good experience. But I don't think I ever really fit in.
"One of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that,
lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination
of their C programs."
-- Robert Firth
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