Post #108,023
7/1/03 11:00:22 AM
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Re: Win98 does it too. Don't have Win95 to check.
Did the OS/2 task list allow the grouping (I know about workspaces/areas) or rearranging? \r\n\r\n No, it doesn't. However, eComStation does. One of the added features is something called the Pager, which is basically a virtual desktop application. You can drag'n'drop apps from one desktop to another, and clicking on the desktop switches to it. Not only that, but clicking on a particular app allows you to switch to its desktop and to the app. The Pager lets you have up to 100 desktops in a grid of up to ten by ten. You can even spread apps out over more than one of the desktops, if you feel so inclined. \r\n\r\n From the quote you have about the "Project Bar" it sounds like the pager does something like that, but as a virtual desktop rather than as a task bar. There is also a taskbar that comes with eComStation... the ability to create taskbar "trays" that can hold groups of apps that can be organised across them sounds like a neat idea. I'll have to run it by Ulrich once he wraps up his law school comps. Currently, if you click on an app in the taskbar, it will automatically switch you to its desktop as well... but the ability to create taskbar trays and apply global actions to them could be another way to skin the cat that could work better for some folks. --\r\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\r\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\r\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\r\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\r\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #108,027
7/1/03 11:34:19 AM
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Sounds like someone's been paying attention to Gnome.
The functionality for eComStation sounds very familiar.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #108,030
7/1/03 11:57:15 AM
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Hm
Well, the origins of the software are a project that used to be called XFolder, and is now called XWorkPlace. The version in eCS has less features than the one at [link|http://xworkplace.org|http://xworkplace.org], and emphasizes rock solid reliability (so some of the features had to go;).
XWP's been around for years; I think the earliest versions were released in the '96 timeframe. Pager is a reimplementation of a program called (IIRC) nine lives (or was it pagemage... yeah, that's right, it was pagemage), which was first released in '94 and last updated in '95.
XWP is available under the GPL, btw.
Overall, it's been a real good deal for everyone; Ulrich got to make some dough, XWP got more stable, and eCS gets to have a lot of kewl features added for a relatively cheap price.
If gnome has something like that, I think it more likely that the programmer cribbed it from warp than the other way around. The main difference is that in eCS it's part of the base package and installed by default; no hunting on hobbes/xworkplace.org/wherever to find it.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #108,032
7/1/03 12:04:52 PM
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The fact that it's called "XWorkplace"
Leads me to believe that it went from X -> Warp. :-)
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #108,114
7/1/03 6:00:17 PM
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I think X = extended
[link|http://www.xworkplace.org/proj_xwp.html|XWorkplace] extends the Workplace Shell. XWorkplace evolved from the earlier XFolder. XFolder also extended the Workplace Shell, but focused primarily on the folder object.
Found the [link|http://www.os2ezine.com/v3n07/first.htm|OS/2 e-Zine! First Look] from May 98.
From the [link|http://www.os2ezine.com/v4n1/rcautil.htm|OS/2 e-Zine! 1998 Readers Choice Awards], it looks like the source for XFolder was GPLed in late 98.
Darrell Spice, Jr. [link|http://www.spiceware.org/cgi-bin/spa.pl?album=./Artistic%20Overpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
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Post #108,115
7/1/03 6:01:28 PM
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Re: I think X = extended
Dunno. I do know that that kind of functionality (moving programs around, selecting workspaces, etc. with the pager) has been in various X environments for ages.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #108,126
7/1/03 8:56:33 PM
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Okay THIS I know...
X has had a pager in it with twm since what 1993, first time I really looked at "X".
And I have a Book on "X" dated 1990 and it had a pager then too.
Dunno about you, but I think "X" having those features predate even OS/2.
| [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg] - IT Grand-Master for Anti-President | | [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] |
THEY ARE WATCHING YOU. The time has come for you to take the last step. You must love THEM. It is not enough to obey THEM. You must love THEM. PEACE BEGETS WAR, SLAVERY IS FREEDOM, STRENGTH IN IGNORANCE.
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Post #108,320
7/3/03 10:22:08 AM
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Well, it could have easily come from X
in the sense that the concept came from there. That doesn't matter that much; what matters is that the functionality is available.
If it showed up in X in '93, it wasn't too long for the functionality to make it's way to my fave platform; the latest version of PageMage came out in mid '95.
When is X going to get a decent OO desktop? When that happens, I might even move over there.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #108,333
7/3/03 11:04:44 AM
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OO Desktop? Whafor?
I never, ever understood the buzz about the WPS. I just don't get it. All I saw was a hard-to-navigate, ugly desktop with shitty fonts. This was Warp 4.
Can someone please explain it to me?
What's so great about an OO desktop? And while you're at it, what IS an OO desktop? (No cries of "Object-Oriented, you maroon" from the peanut gallery, plzkthx)
You seem right chuffed with it - so what's the deal?
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #108,340
7/3/03 11:34:30 AM
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A few nice things about the WPS
These are mainly things that are better than the Win shell as I have too little experience with the Linux shells to comment on them. And remember these things have been around on OS/2 since 1992. I would hope that some of the Linux shells would have caught up in the last 11 years. :-)
1) Work Areas:
It's a special folder object that remembers the state of its contents. E.g. You can open a Work Area folder, start some Program Refrence objects in that folder. When you're done, you can simply close the WA folder and it'll close the open programs. When you reopen the WA folder, it'll automagically restart the programs that were open when you previously closed the WA.
2) Lots and Lots of customization:
E.g. Each folder can have a different background if you want because each folder is a unique object.
3) Multiple startup folders are possible because the Startup folder is a type of folder, not one that has a special name.
4) It's reasonably simple to backup and transfer your desktop to another machine. You can backup and transfer individual objects to another machine too. You can automate and manipulate the WPS with REXX (the scripting language).
5) Lots and lots of available add-ons to replace/extend the desktop. You can have a Win-like taskbar if you want, or not. You can run OS/2 with the WPS or not.
6) You can move objects between drives and the WPS will automatically keep track of where it was moved to. No brain-damaged broken links like on Windows.
7) It's easy to configure DOS programs to act properly. I still have trouble getting Win32 console-mode programs to come up with the fonts and window size I want when started from the startup folder under Win2k, and there's a text mode DOS program that intermittently hangs under Win2k that's driving me nuts....
8) Drag and drop printing. Drag and drop backups. Lots and lots of D&D functionality.
9) Consistent mouse button actions. Mouse Button 1 (usually the left button) selects an object, MB2 lets you manipulate it. Consistent keyboard shortcuts and a list of them in the Help.
Some drawbacks:
1) It's rather resource hungry so it needs at least 16 MB of RAM. Not much of an issue these days, I know. ;-)
2) It can be rather fragile, but is much more robust than it was in OS/2 2.0.
3) You can't have an animated desktop like you could with OS/2 1.3. :-( E.g. the Deskpic screen saver could have a fish tank with carnivorous fish as your desktop, IIRC. I'm surprised that someone hasn't extended that idea to the more modern OSes.
That's about all I can think of at the moment.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #108,360
7/3/03 1:40:50 PM
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The main thing is the incredible degree of consistency
Every object class inherits from the class "object". Underneath that are three classes; abstract objects, file system objects, and transient objects... though for practical use you can ignore transient objects, as they exist for very short periods of time (eg, during a d'n'd operation). File system objects are (surprise!) files of different kinds, and abstract objects aren't. A given object (say, "3menandagoat.jpg") can have more than one class associated with it, allowing a great deal of flexibility in how objects can be manipulated. Each object's properties are dealt with in a notebook. Since there is extensive use of inheritance, each object is guaranteed to have some traits in common, lending an extremely consistent methodology of how any given object can be manipulated. Example; file system object -> image file -> gif or file system object -> image file -> jpeg means that all image files have some traits in common, where appropriate, but can be easily set up to have unique traits apropos of the actual file format involved.
You (er, Peter) are twigging on the graphical part, while not getting the underlying object architecture of the desktop. Once you grok the OO part of the desktop, other UIs start to seem clumsy. One of the biggest benefits of it is that you get to organise the data any way you see fit, because the wps will always keep objects and their classes straight for you. So... you want to have your desktop on a different drive? Drag it over. You want to move and rename your System objects (mouse, screen, keyboard, etc)? Go ahead and put them where you want, and call them what you want. You want to organise your documents by customer? No problem. You want to create shadows of said documents by product? Ctrl-drag them to the appropriate product folder. You want to add MP3 playing to the shell? A uni student did it in about six hours of programming, because all he had to do was to take mp3.dll and retrofit it to MMOS2 norms. With it, each MP3 file is part of its class; their notebooks now have a page showing playtime, bitrate, and editable ID3 tags. You want to use the class he created to track them, but use the console player Z!? No problem; go to the object class's template and associate it with Z and make it the default application for the class. Once you get used to the idea that you can easily control how the system handles groups of files, as well as easily control an individual file within said group to behave differently, and to create your own classes with a little rexx programming, other desktops seem confining.
In short, it's very powerful. It puts you in control of how you interact with your data. That's the main reason why us warp bigots are so gung ho about it... we get to make our own decisions about how we want our desktops to be set up.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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