Post #106,400
6/17/03 9:26:31 PM
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Re: Yet Another Debian Convert
You're very welcome, Tom.
In fairness, although stock Red Hat 9 didn't provide as cutting-edge packages as did Knoppix's knx-hdinstall script, your price was having to download a (frequently updated) 700 MB ISO. That is, sure Knoppix loads very current packages, but only through having very frequent distribution releases. One might in theory get the same effect with less downloading by just enhancing/updating RH9 using apt-get.
I'm not sure why Knoppix would seem so much faster on the same hardware. Some of what RH do with their X11 configuration makes me wary; typically, if I'm on RH, I try to bypass most of that plumbing by having a ~/.xinitrc file and using a window manager of my own choosing. I don't remember RH being better or worse than other distributions in that regard, once you assert control over the identity and number of running processes.
(Granted that most people judge distributions on the basis of their behaviour using strict defaults of all installation and operational choices. What I'm saying is that they shouldn't: My view is that you're not actually done with installation until you've tuned the system to suit local needs.)
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
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Post #106,404
6/17/03 11:10:08 PM
6/18/03 10:07:43 AM
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Subjective performance, perhaps...
A few apt-get upgrades ago I was presented with an option for running the X server at nice -10. Doing so brought an obvious increase in responsiveness. Knoppix probably does this, while RedHat may not.
Edit: I really typed -10, I did. I swear...
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Edited by admin
June 18, 2003, 10:07:43 AM EDT
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Post #106,426
6/18/03 8:29:43 AM
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Tuning tip request
A few apt-get upgrades ago I was presented with an option for running the X server at nice 10. I've got an ancient machine with on-board video using shared RAM. Galeon has been dragging more and more lately, as in occasionally pinning the CPU for 30 seconds before refreshing a page. And if there's a flash applet on the page, it stays pinned. Other than turning off flash (don't start, there's a few sites where I want it) are there any tuning tips like the X server at nice 10 change that might help me? ===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
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Post #106,429
6/18/03 9:49:31 AM
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Yeah...
Tune the machine... :-)
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #106,409
6/18/03 1:10:18 AM
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Possible explanation for speed difference
As an experiment, I turned off Blue Curve and just used the default KDE desktop and performance on RH 9 (subjectively) matched that of the Knoppix build.
OTOH, I'll probably switch the default student desktop to a Debian-based distro primarily due to the ease of managing updates with apt-get.
Apt on Red Hat is nice but it's just an rpm front end and so you don't get the other Debian package management tools with it (like dpkg).
Tom Sinclair
"Look, it's only a birthday present! It just means I'm glad you didn't die partway through the year. "
- Dave Nelson, 'NewsRadio'
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Post #106,413
6/18/03 3:52:13 AM
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Re: Possible explanation for speed difference
Tom, as you may know, I'm a longtime Debian fan (ran RH 2.0 through 5.2 before that on my LAN, among other things), so it's ironic that I'm repeatedly speaking on the Red Hat "side", but I'm trying to be fair.
You wrote:
Apt on Red Hat is nice but it's just an rpm front end and so you don't get the other Debian package management tools with it (like dpkg).
Honestly, /usr/bin/rpm and /usr/bin/dpkg are both equally respectable utilities, and ditto their respective file formats. I can legitimately see those as not big differences.
Anything that rides on top of the apt-get layer (such as synaptic, aptitude, etc.) can inherently work equally well on either sort of system.
The big difference lies (sorry about the broken record on this matter) in the consistent enforcement of a coherent distribution policy. That is true on the dpkg side of Debian/Knoppix/Xandros/Libranet/Progeny/Stormix (which fundamentally are pretty much the same thing), and on the rpm-oriented side of the Conectiva distribution.
In any event, I'm glad to help people with any Linux.
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
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Post #106,433
6/18/03 10:27:45 AM
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Thanks for the even-handed comments
I supposed part of my remarks come from new convert enthusiasm. However, even before this I was becoming tired of Red Hat and dealing with the Red Hat Network. I've been looking for an alternative for a while.
I appreciate your lending me perspective.
I still need to run Red Hat on my office PC, however, since I use Win4Lin to help me generate tests. (The test banks only run under Windows and I didn't want to fiddle with dual-booting or Wine.)
Tom Sinclair
"Man, I love it when the complete absence of a plan comes together."
- [link|http://radio.weblogs.com/0104634/|Ernie the Attorney]
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Post #106,434
6/18/03 10:37:56 AM
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FYI: Win4Lin runs fine on Debian...
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #106,476
6/18/03 5:59:21 PM
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Not listed as supported on Netraverse site
Guess I'll have to look around for Debian installation instructions...
Good to know!
Tom Sinclair
"Man, I love it when the complete absence of a plan comes together."
- [link|http://radio.weblogs.com/0104634/|Ernie the Attorney]
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Post #106,477
6/18/03 6:01:38 PM
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It never is.
But, Debian runs a kernel just like the others, with libs just like the others. :-)
You just have to match a Netraverse kernel patch with the version of the kernel you are running (2.4.20, probably, on late model Debian installs). There won't be a pre-built kernel module like for the RedHat distros. No biggie, you just build it.
Just like Oracle: it's only "certified" on RedHat and SuSE, but I run it perfectly on Debian. Used the same installer, as well.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #106,507
6/19/03 12:51:31 AM
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Gotcha. Thanks!
Tom Sinclair
"Man, I love it when the complete absence of a plan comes together."
- [link|http://radio.weblogs.com/0104634/|Ernie the Attorney]
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Post #106,493
6/18/03 10:08:00 PM
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Re: Thanks for the even-handed comments
Tom --
Again, you're most welcome.
In case you haven't seen them, I keep my cumulative set of notes about Debian at [link|http://linuxmafia.com/debian/tips|http://linuxmafia.com/debian/tips], and it might prove useful to you as long as you remember that it's been accreting downwards for a very long time (with little refactoring). Therefore, the more-current and more-useful stuff is generally towards the bottom.
The collection speaks from no authority whatsoever other than personal observation. There are plenty of good authoritative documents to be found at the Debian Web site, such as a good HOWTO on apt, and of course the Policy document and other developer guides.
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
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Post #106,508
6/19/03 12:52:06 AM
6/19/03 1:00:53 AM
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Just the sort of stuff I need to dig into--Once again, thx!
I'm burning CDs for my students even as we speak:
- Damn Small Linux 0.3.9 (50 MB distro with GUI, based on Knoppix)
- Morphix CombinedLightGUI (Another Knoppix-based bootable CD, but lighter on resource requirements)
- Knoppix 3.2
- GNUWin II (CD full of GNU software for Windows)
I demonstrated the first three during class tonight (on break, of course) and they were quite impressed. I offered to make them CDs and they all agreed quite enthusiastically.
I don't force it on them in any way. The software sells itself, so to speak.
I'm subverting from within, I am.
Tom Sinclair
"Man, I love it when the complete absence of a plan comes together."
- [link|http://radio.weblogs.com/0104634/|Ernie the Attorney]
Edited by tjsinclair
June 19, 2003, 01:00:53 AM EDT
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Post #106,520
6/19/03 8:58:43 AM
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ICLRPD (new thread)
Created as new thread #106519 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=106519|ICLRPD]
| [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg] - IT Grand-Master for Anti-President | | [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] |
THEY ARE WATCHING YOU. The time has come for you to take the last step. You must love THEM. It is not enough to obey THEM. You must love THEM. PEACE BEGETS WAR, SLAVERY IS FREEDOM, STRENGTH IN IGNORANCE.
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