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New They've turned it into Pascal
I never thought boolean types were of any value at all, other than to complicate things. 0 is false - that much is certain, and that's what you need, a definition of certainty. Note that true can be -1 or 1 - or really anything that is not 0. The most useful definition is true=-1, because it means the biggest unsigned integer - all the bits = 1. Whatever the number of bits, -1 will always be the state with all of them on. What's the point? Boolean really should mean 2s complement arithmetic. It's not a type, it's an algebra.
-drl
New Circular definition.
Ross vents his usual frustration with anything invented after 1969:
I never thought boolean types were of any value at all, other than to complicate things.
That's because you're a fuckwit.


0 is false - that much is certain, and that's what you need, a definition of certainty.
Only if you're a religious nutcase... But I digress.

Back on track: So you only need "a definition of certainty" for FALSE, but NO "definition of certainty" for TRUE? Why is that? Where's the logic in it?


Note that true can be -1 or 1 - or really anything that is not 0.
Yeah, that's SOOO "certain" and un-"complicated".


The most useful definition is true=-1, because it means the biggest unsigned integer - all the bits = 1. Whatever the number of bits, -1 will always be the state with all of them on.
Only if you run it on a twos-complement processor. Or did you think that's somehow a Law Of Nature, or something...?


What's the point?
Good question; personally, I don't think you have one, except hanging out your crankiness.

(Which, in your case, usually means hanging out your crank... And stepping on it.)


Boolean really should mean 2s complement arithmetic. It's not a type, it's an algebra.
Only if you DEFINE it in the idiotic C way (and run it on a twos-complement processor).

Circular definition much, fuckwit?


   [link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
New Re: Circular definition.
Because false implies the possibility of true. Otherwise there is no meaning to false. Therefore the Boolean "type" is superfluous. What you need is false and not false. You could turn it around of course, and call 0 "true". This isn't so odd. When a return code is 0, that's good and it means the function worked "truly". Do I need to explain it more?

(PS: I'm listening to Steppenwolf 7 - "Renegade - Foggy Mental Breakdown - Hippo Stomp". That was invented in 1970.)
-drl
New Self-contradiction, and logically inconsistent definition.
Ross exposes the depths of his (and C's) illogic:
Because false implies the possibility of true. Otherwise there is no meaning to false. Therefore the Boolean "type" is superfluous.
So, following that line of (what I will perhaps to charitably call) reasoning: "Because the existence of an integer i implies the existence of the next one, i+1, the integer type is superfluous."

That's funny -- down here on Earth, it's usually accepted that precisely *because* integers behave in one way that is particular to them and not to anything else, that's why you *do* need (or at least, want) a specific type "integer".

(Extending a parallel to the behaviour of true/false values and a boolean type is left as an excercise for the reader with brains bigger than his haemmorhoids.)


What you need is false and not false.
Exactly. And since "not false" _I_S_ true, this means that what you need is false and true.


You could turn it around of course, and call 0 "true". This isn't so odd. When a return code is 0, that's good and it means the function worked "truly".
Actually, while C *doesn't* turn it around in if statements (i.e, 0 is "false" there), in function return codes it *does* work exactly as you say! So on the one hand, 0 is "false", but AT THE SAME TIME it means "worked TRULY". And you claim any *change* to this illogical piece of shit is the problem?!? You need to get your head examined, man!

Alternatively, you (and Todd) could just admit that you don't really give a shit about all the logic and consistency you're *talking* about, but just don't want to accept that anything you learned twenty-five years ago could possibly not have been the ultimate pinnacle of reason and sense you once thought it was. Because that _I_S_ where the real problem is for you two, isn't it?


Do I need to explain it more?
Don't try to be condescending to me, Bubba -- it only works *downwards*.


(PS: I'm listening to Steppenwolf 7 - "Renegade - Foggy Mental Breakdown - Hippo Stomp". That was invented in 1970.)
Yeah, well, "listening" -- but you're probably listening to it with utter disdain.

(BTW, _Der Steppenwolf_ (the one from 1927, that is) is way over-rated, AFAICS.)


   [link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
New Can someone start a new thread please?
===

Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
New What for, aren't the long ones the best?
     The awakening begins - (tuberculosis) - (140)
         Quotes from Uncle Bob - (admin) - (12)
             Maybe it's just me... - (Simon_Jester) - (5)
                 Static languages make the code brittle ... - (bluke)
                 History revisionism - beware !!! (IMHO) - (dmarker) - (3)
                     Re: History revisionism - beware !!! (IMHO) - (JimWeirich) - (2)
                         Another issue was the potential popularity of a lang - (dmarker) - (1)
                             Re: Another issue was the potential popularity of a lang - (JimWeirich)
             Gee...I thought it was a friendly discussion... - (jb4) - (4)
                 Re: Gee...I thought it was a friendly discussion... - (JimWeirich) - (3)
                     Manifest typing....a la Fortran. - (Simon_Jester)
                     Thanks, Jim. Nicely put. -NT - (jb4) - (1)
                         Re: Ditto - Thanks, Jim. -NT - (dmarker)
             Next experiment: try it without OO -NT - (tablizer)
         Java going in the other direction - (bluke) - (109)
             Re: Java going in the other direction - (JimWeirich) - (34)
                 Smalltalk also - (bluke)
                 Speaking of autoboxing - (ChrisR) - (32)
                     gasp -NT - (deSitter) - (2)
                         This is what happens when the foundation sucks - (bluke) - (1)
                             Oh My! - (deSitter)
                     According to Joshua Bloch it hasn't been decided yet - (bluke) - (28)
                         This is just stupid - (tuberculosis) - (27)
                             I think you missed the point - (JimWeirich) - (5)
                                 OK, maybe so - (tuberculosis) - (4)
                                     Re: OK, maybe so - (JimWeirich) - (3)
                                         Well in this case - (tuberculosis) - (2)
                                             Perhaps ... but ... - (JimWeirich) - (1)
                                                 My point was - (tuberculosis)
                             Not J-heads. - (admin) - (1)
                                 Smalltalk as usual is consistent - (bluke)
                             Set Theory - (deSitter) - (18)
                                 Re: Set Theory - (admin) - (12)
                                     Here we go - (deSitter) - (11)
                                         Re: Here we go - (admin) - (10)
                                             Amazing - (deSitter) - (9)
                                                 Re: Amazing - (admin) - (6)
                                                     Re: Amazing - (deSitter) - (5)
                                                         Wow. My first exposure to APL - (Arkadiy) - (1)
                                                             Same as in Objective C -NT - (admin)
                                                         Re: Amazing - (JimWeirich) - (2)
                                                             Heh. - (tseliot) - (1)
                                                                 ROFL -NT - (deSitter)
                                                 No - (Arkadiy)
                                                 Hey Ross, it's only a model. - (mmoffitt)
                                 Hey, watch this! - (drewk)
                                 Unlike DrooK, I'll bite: Ever heard of SQL, ya nitwit?!? -NT - (CRConrad) - (3)
                                     See comment above, applies here as well - (deSitter) - (2)
                                         Better stop talking to yourself then. - (admin)
                                         Your problem is the same you had a year (or was it two?) ago - (CRConrad)
             I remeber Pascal in the very same way - (jb4) - (72)
                 Just had this conversation - (tseliot) - (45)
                     Freep said the same thing - (tuberculosis) - (43)
                         Still waiting for ... - (jb4) - (42)
                             Depends on constraints - (tuberculosis) - (41)
                                 Platforms: - (jb4) - (40)
                                     Don't even get me started - (tuberculosis) - (30)
                                         I'll get you started, alright! - (jb4) - (29)
                                             No I'm not - (tuberculosis) - (28)
                                                 The problem is, you're trying to treat a bool as a number - (jb4) - (25)
                                                     No, I'm trying to branch on a condition - (tuberculosis) - (24)
                                                         21st Century Schitzoid Man - (jb4) - (23)
                                                             You are fighting the language - (tuberculosis) - (22)
                                                                 Tell you what... - (jb4)
                                                                 Can I put my oar in? - (static) - (20)
                                                                     Yeah sure - (tuberculosis) - (19)
                                                                         Such flowerly language toward such a misguided conclusion - (jb4) - (18)
                                                                             Yeah right - (tuberculosis) - (17)
                                                                                 (++true == false) - (ChrisR) - (1)
                                                                                     Just add a little gasoline, and stir!_____;-) - (jb4)
                                                                                 OK, Now I see wht your problem is - (jb4) - (5)
                                                                                     I thought you were going to give up on this - (tuberculosis) - (4)
                                                                                         How sensible is this?!? - (jb4) - (3)
                                                                                             Not convinced - (tuberculosis) - (2)
                                                                                                 Nor am I - (jb4) - (1)
                                                                                                     You guys should be using Modula-2. :-P (new thread) - (Another Scott)
                                                                                 And an answer to your question. - (jb4) - (8)
                                                                                     Wrong answer - (tuberculosis) - (7)
                                                                                         Wrong answer back - (jb4)
                                                                                         They've turned it into Pascal - (deSitter) - (5)
                                                                                             Circular definition. - (CRConrad) - (4)
                                                                                                 Re: Circular definition. - (deSitter) - (3)
                                                                                                     Self-contradiction, and logically inconsistent definition. - (CRConrad) - (2)
                                                                                                         Can someone start a new thread please? -NT - (drewk) - (1)
                                                                                                             What for, aren't the long ones the best? -NT - (CRConrad)
                                                 Comments on supposed idiocy - (JimWeirich) - (1)
                                                     Re: Comments on supposed idiocy - (tuberculosis)
                                     Don't even get me started - (tuberculosis)
                                     You didn't mention types of programs -NT - (tuberculosis) - (7)
                                         Sorry, thot I was clear earlier... - (jb4) - (6)
                                             Still doesn't tell me enough - (tuberculosis) - (5)
                                                 Re: Still doesn't tell me enough - (jb4) - (4)
                                                     The VM's are all written in very portable C - (tuberculosis) - (3)
                                                         Re: The VM's are all written in very portable C - (deSitter) - (2)
                                                             Funny you should mention it - (tuberculosis) - (1)
                                                                 Re: Funny you should mention it - (deSitter)
                     Minor modification - (jb4)
                 Just because *you* don't see it... - (pwhysall)
                 In fact.. - (deSitter) - (15)
                     Heh... - (jb4) - (14)
                         Re: Heh... - (deSitter) - (13)
                             BS - (admin) - (3)
                                 BS - (deSitter) - (2)
                                     When I see you spouting it, I'm going to call you on it. - (admin) - (1)
                                         Fair enough! -NT - (deSitter)
                             Do you have a clue why Linux is easily ported? - (ben_tilly) - (8)
                                 Re: Do you have a clue why Linux is easily ported? - (deSitter) - (7)
                                     No, that is not quite what you claimed - (ben_tilly) - (6)
                                         Well, to me -NT - (deSitter)
                                         Well, to me "moot" means.. - (deSitter) - (4)
                                             Why does your position appear to be shifting? - (ben_tilly) - (3)
                                                 Modus operandi - (admin) - (1)
                                                     Re: Modus operandi - (deSitter)
                                                 Re: Why does your position appear to be shifting? - (deSitter)
                 Wasn't Pascal written as a teaching tool? - (drewk) - (8)
                     Yes - (bluke)
                     Re: Wasn't Pascal written as a teaching tool? - (JimWeirich) - (6)
                         Re: Wasn't Pascal written as a teaching tool? - (Yendor) - (4)
                             Forward Declarations - (JimWeirich) - (3)
                                 Hmm, was Turbo Pascal different about that? -NT - (drewk)
                                 Been too long - (Yendor)
                                 Nope, you're right. - (jb4)
                         Not when I learned it - (drewk)
             Same bandaid as C++ templates - (tuberculosis)
         Re: The awakening begins - (systems) - (16)
             A couple answers - (tuberculosis) - (12)
                 ICLRPD - (drewk)
                 Do I C another one...? - (CRConrad) - (10)
                     Aren't they like seals? - (tuberculosis) - (9)
                         Yes they are. - (admin)
                         No - they're "almost, but not entirely, unlike" seals. - (CRConrad) - (7)
                             NFC. -NT - (admin) - (1)
                                 Does the phrase "Splitting Hairs" come to mind. :-) -NT - (ChrisR)
                             birds are feathered and hairy - (boxley) - (4)
                                 It's all feathers. - (admin) - (3)
                                     Re: It's all feathers. - (deSitter) - (2)
                                         Re, "PS": Yeah, sure - so, whatchathink HAIRS are?!? -NT - (CRConrad) - (1)
                                             Never really thought about it.. - (deSitter)
             Sometimes there aren't right answers - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                 Down with Determinants! :) -NT - (deSitter)
             Please indicate what you changed in an Edit. Thanks. :-) -NT - (Another Scott)

Ruh-roh...
433 ms