Post #103,259
5/23/03 10:25:52 AM
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Not just deep integration
but some apps you just cannot find on other platforms, games like Everquest. If there was a version of Everquest for Linux, I could switch my brother over to Linux. WINE/WINEX apparently still has problems running Everquest for Windows. His Everquest addiction has him dependant on Windows.
The same with businesses that have to run business apps, there are apps written for DOS and Windows that do business accounting and other things that Linux and other operating systems do not have alternatives to. They cannot just switch to another OS if they don't have something that will do the same thing on the other OS.
Another factor is the pre-installed Windows, the OS comes with the computer. With few exceptions (Like the Wal*Mart Lindows PC), usually the non-MS OS does not come pre-installed with the computer. Then you have to figure in that the average user may not be computer savvy enough to get the drivers they need for the Non-MS OS.
There there is the ease of use factor and the tech support factor. Is the Non-MS OS easy enough to use? Does phone tech support cost an arm and a leg, or do they have to go to Internet forums and newsgroups for tech support?
BTW whatever happened to BeOS? After they got bought out, it seems like BeOS was taken off the market. I thought it was a good enough OS to at least get 1% marketshare if they tried hard enough.
"If you're going to cheat, cheat fair. If there's anything I hate it's a crooked crook!" -Moe Howard
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Post #103,270
5/23/03 11:12:21 AM
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The fallacy of overdefined Linux-MSWin compatibility
That's a loser's game, and puts an external party in control. I'll simply steal from some very well put words of Rick Moen's on another mailing list: \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\nAs Rick pointed out, we really don't want to get into a situation\r\nwhere we're saying, "You use X application on ms-dos, you can use Y\r\napplication on Linux", and the reasoning is pretty simple...that there\r\nare just not as many applications on Linux, and some of the applications\r\non ms-dos don't have counterparts on Linux. In reality we would end up\r\ntrying to "be as good" as [legacy MS Windows], which is a situation we\r\nreally don't want to be in. \r\n \r\n\r\nIt was a modestly philosophical point: I was saying, for starters, that\r\nwhen the standard of comparison is "How well can you do at behaving\r\nexactly like Foo?", then your best, ideal-case outcome is a tie. You\r\nimpliedly exclude even the option of doing things differently and\r\nbetter. You're in clone mode. \r\n\r\nI went on to say that customers have a tendency, if allowed, to\r\noverdefine and mis-define the requirements. They've gotten used to tool\r\nFoo; their horizons are narrowed; they've gotten used to what's wrong\r\nwith it and what it just can't do, and are no longer even aware that\r\nthey're working around those things. When asked what is required,\r\nthey'll often as not say "something just like like Foo". The\r\npossibility of doing something different or better gets excluded from\r\ndiscussion. \r\n\r\nPart of the consultant's job is to identify what the customer's actual \r\nbusiness requirements are: You have to find out what their business\r\nsuggests their IT infrastructure needs to do for them, as opposed to\r\nwhat the software they're used to does. And then you find and propose \r\nsoftware options to fill those needs. \r\n\r\nI went over some aspects of that time-honoured criterion, "We need to\r\nhave 100% compatibility with MS-Office formats." OpenOffice.org / Star\r\nOffice can do, as most of us know, a decent job, but there are gotchas. \r\nFont mapping, graphics placement, and some other fine formatting details \r\nmay be off. Password-protected docs probably won't work. I'm unclear \r\non how good support for OLE inclusions is (e.g., embedded spreadsheet\r\ntables in MS-Word docs). And customers' unannounced usage of _very common_\r\nthird-party add-ins such as EndNote (http://www.endnote.com/) may cause\r\ncustomers to believe (in error!) that OpenOffice.org corrupts MS Office\r\ndocuments. \r\n\r\nLast, for MS-Word, MS-Excel, and MS-Access, you have all those templates\r\nand macros written in Virus BASIC... I mean, Visual BASIC for\r\nApplications (ne "Word BASIC"). Again, customers, left to themselves to \r\nspecify requirements, will say "Er, we have, um, crucial business\r\nprocesses in our Excel templates. We can't accept any alternatives that \r\nwon't fully support those templates." And they mean it. They seriously\r\nthink that that's a proper place to embody crucial business\r\nprocesses. \r\n\r\nBecause nobody's ever told them otherwise. Crucial business processes\r\nwere delegated to secretaries and junior executives with _no_\r\nunderstanding of appropriate use of software whatsoever. They don't\r\nknow that crucial records should be kept on transaction-oriented,\r\nproperly backed up and monitored, referential-integrity-protected,\r\nauditable databases rather than spreadsheet templates run on a PC. \r\nThey have no idea that reports should be stored in, and run from, a\r\nproper report-generator module in the central data records, rather than\r\na virus-prone .dot template on a PC. \r\n\r\nThey won't know unless and until you tell them and show them. And tell\r\nthem why. \r\n\r\nDon't forget, the rule of most companies' infrastructure is that little\r\nof it was actually planned at all. It grew, as the sum of a lot of\r\nseparate people's ad-hockery, most of those by people who had no idea\r\nwhat they were doing, and would gladly pound screws with a hammer all\r\nyear long, for lack of acquaintance with the concept of screwdrivers.\r\n \r\n\r\nMoreover, having worked for years to work with the results, everyone's \r\nworked hard to conceal and paper over the flaws and drawbacks, and\r\nshuffle the costs off to someone else's budget. You'll find that there\r\nis essentially not even _recognition_ of the costs incurred from\r\ntwice-annual workstation reloads to fix bit-rot, lost business data from\r\ntrojans and macro viruses, entire lost central message stores every time\r\nMS-Exchange Server auto-corrupts, and lost business documents when\r\nMS-Word and MS-Excel's binary data formats become unreadable. Most of\r\nthat is concealed in other departmental costs, or tossed over to the IT\r\nDepartment, which then gets dumped on for being a "cost centre". \r\n\r\n[...]\r\n\r\n \r\nThere are also some differences in how spreadsheets work, in that "pivot \r\ntables" might not be supported fully, or all of VB script, so in those cases \r\nthat a workaround might need to be created if someone has that in place \r\nalready. \r\n \r\n\r\nAgain, please do _not_ just swallow whole the customer's claim that your\r\nalternatives need to "support VB Script". That's allowing the customer\r\nto dictate technology. If the customer were that great at picking\r\ntechnology, he wouldn't need _you_, would he? You're a consultant; so,\r\nconsult. Give advice on _good_ ways to perform business tasks using\r\ncomputers, not necessarily just on different tools for doing things the\r\nsame lousy half-assed way the customer did things before calling you\r\nin. \r\n\r\nAnd please note: [link|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/moving-target|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/moving-target] \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nIn general we have a lot of software that provides many solutions on\r\nLinux, and it's good for us to tout them because there are some great\r\nsolutions at hand. \r\n \r\n\r\nWe should feel free to steal^W borrow freely from various files in\r\n[link|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/] , especially: \r\n\r\n\r\n
[link|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/applications|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/applications]\r\n
[link|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/applications-accounting|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/applications-accounting]\r\n
[link|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/applications-databases|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/applications-databases]\r\n
[link|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/applications-dtp|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/applications-dtp]\r\n
[link|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/applications-html-editors|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/applications-html-editors]\r\n
[link|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/applications-muas.html|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/applications-muas.html]\r\n
[link|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/applications-office-suites|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/applications-office-suites]\r\n
[link|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/applications-spreadsheets|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/applications-spreadsheets]\r\n
[link|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/applications-video|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/applications-video]\r\n
[link|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/applications-web-browsers|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/applications-web-browsers]\r\n
[link|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/applications-wordprocessors|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/applications-wordprocessors]\r\n
[link|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/asf|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/asf]\r\n
[link|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/cms-knowledgebase [not great]|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/cms-knowledgebase [not great]]\r\n
[link|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/dns-servers|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/dns-servers]\r\n
[link|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/easy-editor|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/easy-editor]\r\n
[link|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/groupware|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/groupware]\r\n
[link|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/msaccess-mysql-migration|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/msaccess-mysql-migration]\r\n
[link|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/msoutlook-to-linux|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/msoutlook-to-linux]\r\n
[link|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/openoffice.org-database|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/openoffice.org-database]\r\n
[link|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/openoffice.org-mysql.debian |http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/openoffice.org-mysql.debian ]\r\n
[link|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/openoffice.org-mysql.pdf |http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/openoffice.org-mysql.pdf ]\r\n
[link|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/openoffice.org-postgresql |http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/openoffice.org-postgresql ]\r\n
[link|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/quicktime|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/quicktime]\r\n
[link|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/scm.html|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/scm.html]\r\n
[link|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/trouble-ticket|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/trouble-ticket]\r\n
[link|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/video-files-support|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/video-files-support]\r\n \r\n\r\nI hereby grant licence to our Web site to use that content under\r\n2-clause BSD licence terms. Any other files in that directory, just\r\nask. \r\n\r\n[link|http://linuxmafia.com/wpfaq/future.html#ALTERNATIVES|http://linuxmafia.com/wpfaq/future.html#ALTERNATIVES] may also prove\r\nuseful. That document is GPL-licensed. \r\n --\r\n
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n
[link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n
\r\n
Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
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Post #103,288
5/23/03 1:35:51 PM
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Mr Moen's arguent is very logical . .
. . but logic is inconsequential to the way businesses are run. Doing it right, $40,000 fully burdened - One lump in the budget - very difficult to get financial approval
- Risk percieved as high (no reviews or testimonials to point to - manager's ass fully exposed
- Have to trust the consultant / integrator to meet time, budget and functionality. Manager's ass fully exposed
- May be all-or-nothing, everything works or nothing does - manager's ass fully exposed
- Historically, nearly 2/3 of high profile large scale information systems projects fail - risk to manger's ass is considerable
Doing it the way it's been done, $80,000 fully burdened. - Broken up into little pieces in lots of different budgets - approved by finance generally not needed
- Risk of any particular piece is considered low, small impact on other pieces - manager's ass exposure is minimal
- Lots of product reviews and testimonials to cover manager's ass
- Work done by individual employees and is buried in overhead and untrackable - whether it works or fails is of little consequence to disposition of manager's ass
- Failure rate may be very high, but stuff that works at least minimally will survive. Stuff that didn't work is invisible. Manager's ass completely covered.
Remember, PC's got into the workplace by being low profile distributed expenses easily concealed. Linux got into the server room by being low profile and easily concealed. Microsoft triumphed over the glass house by providing do-it-yourself kits that buried all the development effort in overhead. That's what Linux based systems have to compete against to succeed. Comprehensive business process reengineering around Linux desktop solutions will remain rare and considered high risk. Linux needs to find small desktop niches and expand from there, and right now, niche products are one of its greatest weaknesses. [link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #103,322
5/23/03 9:07:07 PM
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So short of a die-off: Biz set in concrete for duration. Too
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Post #103,411
5/24/03 4:11:57 PM
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Agreed
Your point is essentially that of the greater success of incremental\r\ndeployment over fell-swoop deployment. No argument there. \r\n\r\n While your low-risk approach has a higher total cost, it's a cost\r\nwhich can be assessed over time, it is a cost which can be partially\r\nexpended while receiving at least partial reward, and it's an approach\r\nwhich doesn't risk the entire computing environment in deployment. \r\n\r\n What I am arguing about, in either case, is the\r\nconcept that you have to be able to be able to provide foo, and only\r\nfoo, with no substitutions, on GNU/Linux, to allow it to replace legacy\r\nMS Windows. Instead (incremental or fell-swoop deployment), what you\r\nwant to try is to identify functionality which can be\r\nimplemented on GNU/Linux. If the same program can provide the same\r\nfunctionality (e.g.: SAS, which runs on legacy MS Windows, GNU/Linux,\r\nUnix, MVS, OS/2, VMS, ...), great. If instead the issue is\r\nfileshareing, then Samba is largely a drop-in for a legacy MS Windows\r\nserver. In userspace, applications have differing capabilities, but OOo\r\ncan largely replace MS Office, Postgres for MS SQL Server, etc. \r\n\r\n If your functional requirements are too tight, it's possible that,\r\nfor this niche, there is no good fit. Naturally, Microsoft attempts to\r\n"integrate" its products such that A can't be replaced with M, because\r\nC, D, and E rely on A, and N, O, and P can't match the aggregate\r\nfunctionality without further development. My suggestion in this case\r\nis to suggest pilot development of a replacement solution which\r\ndoes have this aggregate functionality. \r\n\r\n Given the issue here is one fucking game (it's not as if\r\nGNU/Linux is completely void of entertainment options, or that\r\ndual-booting is impossible), I'd suggest that the conversion target\r\neither has his head up his nether regions, or lacks any other\r\nimperetive, inclination, or perceived benefit of conversion. Can't win\r\n'em all, can always come back and mop up after. [link|http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/|Knoppix] is a very useful\r\nconversion / demonstration tool. \r\n --\r\n
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n
[link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n
\r\n
Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
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Post #103,416
5/24/03 4:31:38 PM
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Oh, I agree . .
. . that the functional equivalents are in place for major horizontal categories and that they are good enough.
Linux won't be able to satisfy the PhotoShop or AutoCAD users for a long time. The first is a career application and pratictioners aren't going to be willing to give up any of their hard won experience (and some simply can't give up CMYK). The other has the same experience problem plus the need for 100% file compatibility for extremely complex documents. Fortunately, while these are very important high profile applications, they are niche applications.
What Linux needs is specialty apps that get it in the door, and from which the general apps can be leveraged. I'm sure this is happening, I just don't know where yet.
The biggest boost for Linux on the desktop will be when things have changed enought that Office 97 and Office 2000 are no longer viable and users are offered the choice of moving to registration enforced versions or moving to StarOffice / OpenOffice. A typical 5-user business has 0 to 1 copies of Microsoft Office because it's so expensive.
Once forced to StarOffice / OpenOffice, the big step will have been taken, and the step to Linux just won't look that steep any more. This presumes, of course, that SO/OO will be able to offer the new features that can't be had in Office 97 / 2000. I'm sure Microsoft will do everything they can to see that doesn't happen.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #103,370
5/24/03 2:50:21 AM
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With one exception...
...Everquest, your entire post is handwaving. "There are apps" - *what* apps? Be specific. To be honest, I don't really give a shit about people who are "addicted" to Everquest. It's a game. Play Unreal Tournament 2003 or something.
The "average" user doesn't run accounting software. The "average" user is more than capable of going through the Red Hat or Mandrake installers - or, at the very least, will be no more bemused by them than they are by the Windows installer. Remember that there isn't a graphical disk partitioning portion of the Windows setup process. It's text-based and not at all clear.
The "average" user's needs are more than met by OpenOffice, Evolution and Mozilla.
Linux supports all hardware in common use today. In fact, due to the excellent legacy support, it supports MORE hardware than Windows XP. If a user is "computer savvy" [Oh lordy, I hate the word "savvy"] enough to locate the correct Windows XP drivers for their hardware, then they'll not struggle with Linux.
Support. What's this wondrous support you get for MS products? There's the knowledge base, the newsgroups, the increasingly thin product documentation, and that's it. Anything else you have to pay big bucks for. The concept of Microsoft "supporting" their end users is a myth. You cannot get free phone support from Microsoft. All phone support is chargeable. It costs money. All the time. Clear?
When you buy Red Hat Linux, you get 90 days phone support for installation. Depending on which version you buy, you get more support. You get NO SUPPORT AT ALL with Windows XP or Windows Server 2003, no matter how much you spend on the product.
BeOS? Who gives a shit? And what relevance does it have here?
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #103,395
5/24/03 1:14:21 PM
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It does matter
most who play Everquest are addicted and have high level characters that they do not want to abandon. My brother is one of them, can't get him off the computer and stop him from playing Everquest without prying his hands from the keyboard using a crowbar. It is most of what he does on a computer. It is as addictive as ciagrettes or beer to others. He has no social life except the online Everquest social life of teaming up with other players to slay monsters, etc. He is not alone at this.
BeOS was an alternative to Microsoft Windows and it did run on WINTEL hardware, it is relevant because this thread was about leaving Windows and finding alternatives. But it is also an example of what can go wrong when a company competes with Windows. As far as I know it isn't being developed on anymore and might no longer be sold. It ran on BeBoxes, PowerMacs and WINTEL clones, just not the G3 PowerMacs and above.
My point was that Windows is preinstalled, and there is no need for the average user to partition hard drives or download drivers for Windows. Even still, if their hardware is not completely Linux friendly, they will get those install issues that I and others have gotten. Little snafu's like Media Errors, and the GUI setup locking up during the install of X. My other brother got those errors too. I tried to get him to at least try Linux, but he could not install it. He can do a ground level install of Windows ME and XP with the partitioning of hard drives and driver installs, but Red Hat Linux did not install for him. I blame the hardware, I had two local Linux experts try and they also told me the hardware was at fault. I've posted about this problem before, Linux just doesn't work with 100% of the hardware configurations out there.
"If you're going to cheat, cheat fair. If there's anything I hate it's a crooked crook!" -Moe Howard
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Post #103,482
5/25/03 9:52:06 AM
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Re: It does matter
most who play Everquest are addicted and have high level characters that they do not want to abandon. My brother is one of them, can't get him off the computer and stop him from playing Everquest without prying his hands from the keyboard using a crowbar. It is most of what he does on a computer. It is as addictive as ciagrettes or beer to others. He has no social life except the online Everquest social life of teaming up with other players to slay monsters, etc. He is not alone at this. So there's a lot of losers. I still don't care. BeOS was an alternative to Microsoft Windows and it did run on WINTEL hardware, it is relevant because this thread was about leaving Windows and finding alternatives. But it is also an example of what can go wrong when a company competes with Windows. As far as I know it isn't being developed on anymore and might no longer be sold. It ran on BeBoxes, PowerMacs and WINTEL clones, just not the G3 PowerMacs and above. And it ran what useful software? It supported all the WINTEL [why the caps?] hardware out there? Guess again. No support for nVidia graphics cards. The abject failure of BeOS had NOTHING to do with Windows and EVERYTHING to do with the fact that there was NO SOFTWARE for it. My point was that Windows is preinstalled, and there is no need for the average user to partition hard drives or download drivers for Windows. Even still, if their hardware is not completely Linux friendly, they will get those install issues that I and others have gotten. Little snafu's like Media Errors, and the GUI setup locking up during the install of X. My other brother got those errors too. I tried to get him to at least try Linux, but he could not install it. He can do a ground level install of Windows ME and XP with the partitioning of hard drives and driver installs, but Red Hat Linux did not install for him. I blame the hardware, I had two local Linux experts try and they also told me the hardware was at fault. I've posted about this problem before, Linux just doesn't work with 100% of the hardware configurations out there. Windows just doesn't work with 100% of the hardware configurations. Basically you've stated the obvious. You've never, ever come back to this forum with a solid report of what didn't work for you in your Linux installation, even when asked. Stay with Windows. Stop bitching about it. If you really want to move, you will.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #103,505
5/25/03 8:55:40 PM
5/25/03 9:00:26 PM
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An Everquest suicide reported in paper
some days ago. The opening summary was almost a verbatim description of your brother, per you. It seems that one of his game- erstwhile 'friends' turned on him and stole all his hoarded goodies. This virtual-loss of imaginary-goods caused him to end his imaginary-life. (But it had the side effect of also cancelling-out any chances for participation in the larger dream - there was no Trash bin for that delete. Guess he never RTFM.)
I have no idea how many notches this particular virtual-life honey pot has on its money belt; maybe you could search for this piece of macabre data. I suppose that your crowbar has proven as ineffectual as.. some other things.
If he 'has no other life' - perhaps then he won't feel any loss (?) If nobody can conclude that he needs some help in growing up, and will next actually scrounge up some: please make your obituary notice brief.
Can I have his computer? And yours too, maybe - should you ever relate its usage to any conditions you'd like to change. Hell, I'll find homes for both of them - maybe with turnoff timers hard-wired. (I never offer heroin or guns with filed-off sears to any known addictive personalities.)
Luck.. but I'd think that might not be enough,
Ashton
Edit- delete second self. Backup.
Edited by Ashton
May 25, 2003, 09:00:26 PM EDT
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Post #103,532
5/26/03 10:13:24 AM
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Suicides over video games
I found a reference to it from another news item where a 12 year old girl killed herself over not being able to complete the Bomberman video game on the Playstation 2:
[link|http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2002may/bga20020528011906.htm|http://www.geek.com/...0020528011906.htm]
When I was that age, the Atari 2600 was big, and the only game I could not finish was "Riddle of the Spynx" by Imagic. I even got ET home, something that many could not do.
I found this thread via Google:
[link|http://www.pimprig.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1254|http://www.pimprig.c...?s=&threadid=1254]
Nothing else I can find on it.
Everquest is just Advanced Dungeons and Dragons meets the first person shooter type games. Back in the AD&D days I used to hear stories of someone who would commit suicde for real when a favorite character of theirs died.
I suspect if my brother was not playing Everquest, he'd be playing something else. But the years he has invested in playing Everquest, he doesn't want to give it up. People in the game have backstabbed him before, and rather than kill himself over it, he used his allies to get a blood hunt on the backstabber to get his things back.
"If you're going to cheat, cheat fair. If there's anything I hate it's a crooked crook!" -Moe Howard
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Post #103,538
5/26/03 11:34:55 AM
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Video Game Suicide...
...is Darwinism in action.
Anyone who gets as committed to a video game as your brother needs to have their computer taken outside and smashed with a sledgehammer.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #103,542
5/26/03 11:49:19 AM
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But
The light would hurt. The fresh air would BURN hsi nostrils and lungs. Plus you think he could swing a sledge after all the atrophy of his muscles. Guess he'd hafta eat that "Popeye approved Spinach" just to waddle outside.
But, maybe if there was a Joystick or mouse attach to a "machine" to do it for him...
| [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg] - IT Grand-Master for Anti-President | | [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] |
THEY ARE WATCHING YOU. The time has come for you to take the last step. You must love THEM. It is not enough to obey THEM. You must love THEM. PEACE BEGETS WAR, SLAVERY IS FREEDOM, STRENGTH IN IGNORANCE.
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Post #103,550
5/26/03 3:15:04 PM
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Well to be honest
he does take out time to work a job, and use the bathroom/shower, brush his teeth, change clothes, between Everquest sessions. :)
He is dedicated to the game, there are many like him out there who can't quit playing. They have several level 65 characters to show for it.
"If you're going to cheat, cheat fair. If there's anything I hate it's a crooked crook!" -Moe Howard
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