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New Easy answer

I don't care.

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Not my problem. Not my email setup.

--\r\n
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n
[link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n
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   Keep software free.     Oppose the CBDTPA.     Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
New Looks like I've pushed a button
I'm not in general corp tech.
I do the data.

I have some control of my technology, but only where it
relates to my data projects.

I HAVE to use a specific setup for email.
A LOT of people use this same setup.

So I post a helpful hint on how to make life a bit
better and you come evangelizing. Yet you are not
helpful, only: nyah nyah.

Is this just to annoy me for the fun of it?
OK, I can accept that, it can be fun.

Or is there some deeper problem here, be it with
me or you?

Would you feel that my original comment is of no use
to anyone?

My gut feel is you read the initial post, decided that
it didn't satisfy your Debian holy war agenda. You kicked
in your 2 cents. When I responded, you realized you were
of no use (a rare occasion for you, but it happens to all
of us), so kicked off the snide remark and forgot about it.

As Greg pointed out to me years ago when I was spouting
off anti-M$ stuff, he was quite comfortable using all of
it, since you need to be able to make the best use of all
the tools you have available. Am I so wrong at least trying?
New That and...

A few seconds with AlltheWeb or Google will turn up several leads.

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You're pulling a Norm.

--\r\n
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n
[link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n
\r\n
   Keep software free.     Oppose the CBDTPA.     Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
New oooo ooo ooo a norm!
Arrggggg.

hmmmmm.

No.

The wonders of Google are great when you have a firm direction.
I accept reading pointers with pleasure. But Google is a huge
time sink of conflicting and out of date information when you
wander possibilities.

As Greg has seen, I dove into SAP-DB enough to get a realistic
feel for it, and did a lot of research on my own.

I come here for a point of view. People who have been there and
done that and can give guidance. Sometimes I take it (sqsh)
sometimes I don't (debian)

In this particular case I stumbled across something that was
immediately useful and decided to share. You didn't like it,
gave a no information message, and got a bit nasty.

That's OK. I forgive you.

For my consulting that does NOT use Exchange, this looks very
nice: [link|http://sourceforge.net/projects/popfile/|http://sourceforge.net/projects/popfile/]

New OK

Apologies -- I was taking the usual cheap shots at Exchange at your expense.

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Given that I don't rely on Exchange (though it's what's used at work, I maintain my own email for virtually all my communications needs), I don't have immediate familiarity with what it can do, and (as may have been evident) don't particularly care. I consider it broken by design.

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That said, I've followed the SA discussion enough over the past year or two to know that there are some integrations with Exchange possible, though this is largely by reputation. I believe the two most common approaches are a commercial package incoporating SA as a locally-managed filter, and a proxy subscription service which runs your mail through Spamassassin prior to it hitting your Exchange server (or in part of the delivery process). In both cases, you've got the problem of having SA run at a distance from your mailbox, meaning it's harder for the individual user to tune preferences.

\r\n\r\n

My own configuration is fetchmail => exim => procmail (invoking spamassassin) => mutt. The procmail rules incorporate a whitelist / blacklist / spamlist setup, where whitelisted senders are passed straight through, blacklisted senders go to a blacklist box, and spamlist senders are automatically treated as spam (useful for commercial mailing lists / newsletters I never signed up for). While relatively complicated, the advantage is that I control when spamassassin is triggered, and what I do with the trapped spam (it's filtered to a spam mailbox for further evaluation, as well as automatically reported, over a threshold, to spam reporting services). I explicitly don't run spamassassin on mail from whitelisted senders (avoids embarassing accidents), etc. And it's trivial to add addresses to an appropriate list.

\r\n\r\n

My experience in running SA as an MTA-level service for a large userbase (~15k accounts) was that it was useful, and set at a threshold of 10 would eliminate about 85% of spam, with very few false positives. However both accuracy and effectiveness increase as you move the control locus to the user. Unfortunately, so does complexity, and the potential to opportunistically deny spam at the mailserver, or better, tie up spammer resources. Me? I like the power and flexibility (literally: can bounce mail anywhere, run any program, log anywhere, with comparative ease). I can see that others might be overwhelmed. And yes, I've royally fscked up my procmail recipies on occasion....

\r\n\r\n

Of end-user tools, the stuff I've seen regarding Bayesian tools and Mac stuff seems the best thought out and friendliest to Joe and Jane average. While there may be tools that can tie in to Exchange, the interface in general is too limiting to be readily effective.

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....some of this would have been evident from Google. But not all. And in fairness to Norm, he can't help himself. I was pulling a Ross, though, and while I'm pretty sure Ross should know better, I'm positive I do.

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My bad. Apologies.

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....not that I didn't think you could handle it ;-)

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Edit Oh, and I wanted to add -- tseliot's writeup is tres good.

--\r\n
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n
[link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n
\r\n
   Keep software free.     Oppose the CBDTPA.     Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
hg
Expand Edited by kmself May 21, 2003, 02:35:40 AM EDT
New Thanks for the explanation
New Trying get's you
ALOT of good things.

Trying new stuff will always give you a clear idea of what you can and can't do.

I think Karsten is being a bit retentive here... but he does that sometimes.

Ignore that troll behind the curtain, he means nothing.

[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg] - IT Grand-Master for Anti-President
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!]

THEY ARE WATCHING YOU.
The time has come for you to take the last step.
You must love THEM.
It is not enough to obey THEM.
You must love THEM.

PEACE BEGETS WAR, SLAVERY IS FREEDOM, STRENGTH IN IGNORANCE.
     Spam filter that works - (broomberg) - (29)
         Two points - (kmself) - (28)
             3 - I'm using the Python / Windows version - (broomberg) - (27)
                 Easy answer - (kmself) - (6)
                     Looks like I've pushed a button - (broomberg) - (5)
                         That and... - (kmself) - (3)
                             oooo ooo ooo a norm! - (broomberg) - (2)
                                 OK - (kmself) - (1)
                                     Thanks for the explanation -NT - (broomberg)
                         Trying get's you - (folkert)
                 Sounds like you're screwed. - (tseliot) - (18)
                     What about individual training? - (broomberg) - (17)
                         The nice thing about Exim - (tseliot)
                         Okay, I have time for more detail now - (tseliot) - (15)
                             Thanks - (broomberg) - (14)
                                 Full writeup on Exim and SpamAssassin as Exchange front end - (tseliot) - (13)
                                     Thanks to you... - (folkert) - (3)
                                         Thanks! (plus, I added the .css file I forgot to upload) -NT - (tseliot)
                                         Coming soon to knight? -NT - (drewk) - (1)
                                             Ummm... - (folkert)
                                     THANKYOU!!! - (broomberg)
                                     Great, but... - (admin) - (2)
                                         Ouch. - (tseliot) - (1)
                                             You can use the same HTML there... -NT - (admin)
                                     --Document got minor edits this morning -NT - (tseliot)
                                     Comments unwelcome - (deSitter) - (3)
                                         I've adapted my message to my audience... - (tseliot) - (2)
                                             Re: I've adapted my message to my audience... - (deSitter) - (1)
                                                 Thanks for the explicitness - (tseliot)
                 Sounds like the ACE system here. - (jbrabeck)

Zeptotechnology is just around the corner!
75 ms