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New kitty coats and blankets in the EU, such a backward place
the pigs must have toys and rover is skinned. Whatever floats yer boat I suppose.
[link|http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3009537.stm|http://news.bbc.co.u...urope/3009537.stm]
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]

"I hit him so hard in the head his dog shat a turd in the shape of Jesus" Leonard Pine
New Pigs (real ones) . .
. . are probably smarter than dogs or cats, and many testify to their being good and amiable pets - yet nobody seems to object to them being slaughtered by the millions and made into footballs, sausage and pork chops.

Nobody seems to have a problem wearing belts and shoes made of pig skins. What's the difference between them and dogs and cats?

Cats are killers that delight in murdering anything smaller than they, preferably slowly - pigs are much less inclined to murder, thus less worthy of our admiration?

Dogs are decendents of pack hunters and prone to recidivism. They bight many people and kill children every year. Pigs don't - but dogs have our admiration because they are killers?

I suppose it all boils down to one thing - "Oh! they're so cute (and pigs aren't)". Having nice fur excuses all sins. Sorry, I'm still going to side with the pigs.

And since I eat pig parts and wear things made out of pig skins, I see no reason to treat dogs, cats and horses any different.



[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New Hawaii feral pigs: Point-Counterpoint.
[link|http://starbulletin.com/2001/07/24/news/story5.html|Report of feral pig attack]

At 6:35 a.m. yesterday, Patsy Caulfield walked with her dog, Runner, along a beach north of Punaluu Beach Park. Suddenly, a wild, black pig charged them.

The pig stuck its two tusks into the left side of her body when she shielded Runner.

"I was terrified. It was unprovoked and unexpected," Caulfield said. "My first instinct was the pig was not going to get my dog."

A friend drove her to Kahuku Hospital, where she received 30 staples and about 20 internal stitches to close the wound in her left thigh and lower abdomen, and medical staff reported the attack to the Kahuku Police Station.

[...]


[link|http://starbulletin.com/2001/08/07/editorial/letters.html|A letter to the editor]

Feral pig attack sounds fishy

Pardon me for thinking that your July 24 news story about a pig attacking a woman and her dog on the beach at Punaluu is more story than news. I have been hiking extensively in these islands for more than 30 years and have had a fair number of meetings with our feral pig population.

Although they can be vicious when cornered, I have never encountered a pig that would not run from a human or a dog, if given any opportunity to do so. Yet here we have one who comes down from the hills, boldly strolls through the town of Punaluu, crosses a busy highway to the beach, and then attacks both a lady and her dog. What did the pua'a do next, go for a swim? Then, shaking itself dry, it must have gone back across the highway again, trotted undisturbed through Punaluu (were all the dogs asleep?), and returned home with a great story to tell.


[link|http://starbulletin.com/2001/08/07/editorial/letters.html|A rebuttal]

Feral pig attack was not imagined

I was outraged to read Richard McMahon's Aug. 7 letter ("Feral pig attack sounds fishy") doubting my experience with the feral pig. It was terrifying and truly real.

I do not believe the pig boldly strolled through Punaluu Town; he probably followed the Punaluu Stream at Green Valley Road and crossed to the beach under the highway bridge. My dog and I were equally startled. Why we were chased and attacked is anyone's guess. However, there was a witness further up the beach who saw the commotion.

Meanwhile, I have been recuperating in pain for almost three weeks, with sutures and staples now removed.

My question is why anyone would think I made this up. There is no gain.

The only reason this made the news is because Kahuku Hospital was required to call the Honolulu Police Department, and it was determined that people in my area should be aware of this incident.


When we were in Hawaii a few years ago, we were warned about being on the lookout for the pigs and got quite nervous when we saw fresh tracks on some of the trails we were hiking...

Comparing house dogs to packs of strays is probably as fair as comparing Vietnamese pot bellied pigs to feral pigs. ;-)

Cheers,
Scott.
New Exactly . .

Comparing house dogs to packs of strays is probably as fair as comparing Vietnamese pot bellied pigs to feral pigs. ;-)


So if their intellegence and behavior are equivalent why is it OK to slaughter, disassemble, roast, smoke, process, eat, and wear the hides of the one, yet doing so to the other is an outrage?

I just don't see that farming cats and dogs is significantly different from farming pigs.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New In the BBC story
it's not clear exactly what's going on.

Since the US has banned the trade of cat and dog skins, the European market has expanded.


I wonder when that ban was put in place, but the story doesn't say.

A video seen by BBC correspondent Tim Franks shows one Belgian furrier displaying a blanket he says was made from cats farmed in Belgium.

What is more, he says that stray cats and dogs are rounded up and skinned.


If it's illegal (and in the US at least there are anti-cruelty laws that would probably apply in such situations), then that should be investigated and appropriate action taken.

They said it was up to national governments to ban the trade in cat and dog fur.

Alsatian coat

So far, though, only Italy has brought in such a ban.

[..]

Campaigners accuses the European Commission of lacking the political will to address the issue, arguing that the trade is not only morally repugnant, but also a case of consumer fraud.


The sidebar:

Campaigners claim 2 million cats and dogs slaughtered every year

Main exporter: China

12 to 15 adult dogs needed to make a dog fur coat

Up to 24 cats needed for cat fur coat

Cat and dog fur also used in hats, gloves, shoes, blankets, stuffed animals and toys

Dog fur sometimes labelled as: Gae-wolf, sobaki, Asian jackal, goupee, loup d'Asie, Corsac fox, dogues du Chine, or simply fake or exotic fur

Cat fur sometimes labelled as: house cat, wild cat, katzenfelle, rabbit, goyangi, mountain cat


If it's fraud, then it should be prosecuted.

Andrew writes:
I just don't see that farming cats and dogs is significantly different from farming pigs.

I think there are several issues:
1) cultural
2) animual cruelty concerns
3) fraud

PETA would probably be most concerned about #2, while consumer advocates would be most concerned about #3, while Jane Q. Public would be concerned by #1. Objectively, if animals are specifically raised for commercial purposes there's little difference between farming dogs and farming pigs. If animals are being rounded up off the street and skinned illegally, then I think that's different.

My $0.02.

Cheers,
Scott.
New OT: Feed the rats to the cats, and the cats to the rats...
... and get the cat skins for nothing.

[link|http://www.snopes.com/critters/disposal/catrat.htm|http://www.snopes.co...sposal/catrat.htm]

[link|http://www.punkbands.com/lyrics/bands/huskerdu/ndr.htm#13|http://www.punkbands...skerdu/ndr.htm#13]



--
Chris Altmann
New At least a little urban legend in the making there
There has been a reduction in the population of strays in large cities because the authorities have started to clamp down on the food put out by do-gooders. In some areas, the stray population had reached pest proportions.

Then sometime later, a woman reported "asians" catching dogs on the streets. Then everyone suddenly noticed that "a lot" of the strays were missing. Next in line is then the furrier reporting that cats and dogs are being harvested on the streets for their fur. (And just imagine that: a fur coat made of mangy, flea-ridden mongrels with no two matching pieces...)

New Re: Pigs (real ones) . .

More on same... This is dredged out of the cesspit of my brain, but should be mostly accurate.

\r\n\r\n

First, pigs are very similar to humans biologically. Tissue similarity is strong enough that replacement heart valves are often "harvested" from pigs (this doesn't do much for the pig, note). The flipside is that the same similarity benefits organisms, particularly parasites and disease organisms. Hence: biblical (and other cultures' ritual prohibitions) on eating pork, swine 'flu, and various intestinal worms. Maintaining household animals of slightly greater special differentiation reduces the risk of disease transmission. Fleas are the most typical problem, generally controlable.

\r\n\r\n

Pigs are big. Even the potbelly pigs which were popular a few years back (I actually saw one, kept by a couple in their RV trailer, at the Stanford University Hospital parking lot, where the woman was staying following her heart-lung transplant as she battled cystic fibrosis, and where I was working for the man who's now FDA administrator...another of those stories you just can't make up). Cats range from 5-25 lb, with 10-15 being the usual range. Dogs cover more ground, but still tend to be smaller than your typical pig. I've never seen a yippy pig (though I suppose they probably exist...). Hmm, maybe not:

\r\n\r\n
\r\n

The pigs kept as pets in Australia are dubbed Australian Companion Pigs or Miniature Pigs. However, the term miniature is misleading given they still grow to weighty proportions in pet terms, that is, up to 100kg (sometimes more) and need a fair amount of room to move. Their weight however is considerably less than the average pig bred for the kitchen table which can range between 350 and 500kg.

\r\n\r\n

[link|http://www.abc.net.au/creaturefeatures/facts/pigs.htm|Creature Features]

\r\n
\r\n\r\n

Pigs are aggressive. In addition to the Hawaii feral pig stories below, there are periodic tales of attacks in the SF Bay Area, notably Marin, which has a fairly substantial population. Worse during whatever pig rut is called. Pig farming is a dirty business (been to pig farms in Iowa), in part because pen populations are kept large enough that pigs can't keep track of who's who -- in order to reduce the likelihood of fights. Pigs are also omnivores, and will pretty much go after anything when hungry. They're not quite the hunters cats and dogs are, but they are opportunists.

\r\n\r\n

Pack behavior of dogs usually manifests itself as treating the human as the "top dog". Cat behavior is different, I believe Ben's posted here about domesticated cats essentially regressing -- an adult domesticated cat is more a kitten (making the owner the mom/dad cat) than a pack animal. My own experience seems to bear this out. I don't know pig sociology in particular, but I suspect they're somewhat herd/packish with "top pig" structures. Not sure how this translates to domestication. Interesting source on much of this (characteristics of domesticated animals, including temperment) is in [link|http://www.wwnorton.com/catalog/spring99/gunsgerms.htm|Guns, Germs, and Steel].

--\r\n
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n
[link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n
\r\n
   Keep software free.     Oppose the CBDTPA.     Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
New Scores more points for intelligence, then
Pigs are aggressive.
I once read a SciFi short that hinged on the concept that of the two alien races on a newly-discovered planet, the apparently primitive, hostile one was actually more intelligent than the social, passive one. The protagonist pointed out that if you landed a spaceship among a herd of cows they'd just look at it and moo. If you landed among primitive humans they'd either run away or attack.
===

Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
     kitty coats and blankets in the EU, such a backward place - (boxley) - (8)
         Pigs (real ones) . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (7)
             Hawaii feral pigs: Point-Counterpoint. - (Another Scott) - (4)
                 Exactly . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (3)
                     In the BBC story - (Another Scott) - (2)
                         OT: Feed the rats to the cats, and the cats to the rats... - (altmann)
                         At least a little urban legend in the making there - (scoenye)
             Re: Pigs (real ones) . . - (kmself) - (1)
                 Scores more points for intelligence, then - (drewk)

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