Post #100,153
5/3/03 7:53:54 PM
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brilliant find - kudos
"It would be different if he had written anti-gambling screeds," Mr. Kristol said. "I'm sure he doesn't regard gambling as a virtue but as a rather minor and pardonable vice and a legal one and one that has not damaged him or anyone else." Might the rest of us be forgiven for assuming that Morals Czar Bennett, who has had so much to say about the deficiencies in the conduct of his fellow citizens, might have excluded gambling from the bill of particulars precisely because it's a practice he enjoys himself? As to Kristol's suggestion that gambling is a vice that "has not damaged [Bennett] or anyone else"--it is to chortle. "I view it as drinking," he said. "If you can't handle it, don't do it." In other words, if you haven't parlayed your cabinet posts into a lucrative book-and-lecture gig as a public scold, you've got no business playing with the high rollers like Uncle Bill. In the immortal words of Ashton Brown: cackle...cackle...cackle...cackle... cordially, "Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist."
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Post #100,165
5/3/03 9:03:36 PM
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I agree with him
He can afford it.
His family isn't starving.
It is not a problem with him.
I have a friend who plays poker
all the time at the casinos. He
is not wealthy. I consider him
"working poor", but he is single
which means very low responsibilities.
But he gets a lot of enjoyment
out of it and can play on $100 for
10 hours. Sometime he loses, which
means he pays $10 per hour for the
entertainment. But he usually breaks
even (+- $20).
He can handle it. So can Bennet.
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Post #100,167
5/3/03 9:35:02 PM
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I could handle it too
If I made millions from telling people how to be virtous, I could handle losing the millions that might otherwise go to my family.
-----------------------------------------
We have not had a Republican ex-president since Eisenhower who did not get a pardon or give one to his predecessor or staff
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Post #100,189
5/3/03 11:54:57 PM
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What is the problem?
Guy is a director of an organization that attempts to
promote a particular viewpoint. So what? You
don't need to listen to him.
In THIS particular case, one of his personel
behaviours contradicts the one of the planks of the
organization. So what again? He has never attempted
to lecture on that plank.
Are you telling me you expect all the high level members
of an organizaion to agree with EVERYTHING it says?
No way!
Politics is about working within the system and trying to
accomplish YOUR goals in the framework that is there. This
includes putting up with crap you may not believe in to
forward your own agenda.
Compromise.
It is a requirement if you want to accomplish anything, unless
you believe in dictators.
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Post #100,219
5/4/03 9:33:51 AM
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Likewise...
some people feel that Gambling is a moral vice. Regardless of whether or not you agree with it, they are entitled to feel that way.
Furthermore, Bennett hasn't been one not to point the moral finger, so a third party pointing a moral finger at Bennett shouldn't be an issue with you either.
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Post #100,221
5/4/03 9:40:00 AM
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Re: Likewise...
Let's be honest - it's not the gambling that is the sin, it is the moralizing - so the finger is being pointed at the moralizer, not the gambler. It's basic Christian belief - "judge not.." and so people react strongly to it.
-drl
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Post #100,285
5/4/03 8:36:40 PM
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It's not solely a Christian belief....
I belive others call it: "Live by the sword, die by the sword."
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Post #100,201
5/4/03 1:39:42 AM
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It's not the gambling
It is not the gambling itself that is the problem here. It's the amusement of catching a professional moralizer at their own moral failing.
Bennett has been one of the hardest pushers of tough drug laws, but somehow overlooks that gambling addiction is common and destructive also. It really doesn't matter if he can control his own habit or not, since he has ignored the fact that many drug users can control theirs. And that is a bit of hypocrisy that should be pointed out to him.
Jay
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Post #100,211
5/4/03 8:02:02 AM
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It's not a moral failing
It is spending a few moments / hours
paying for an adrenaline rush.
Just like drugs are not a moral failing.
I'm for allowing any person to use any substance,
as long as they don't affect me. So I disagree
with Bennet on that. But I agree with his stance
on gambling.
You, on the other hand, seem to agree on the concept
of these things being a moral failing, and this seems
to mean you are closer to Bennet on the moral failing
belief side than you are on the ability for people to
do whatever they want as long as they don't hurt other
people side.
Bennet does not live up to your high expectations. But he
lives up to his own.
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Post #100,242
5/4/03 1:00:09 PM
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Certainly don't agree with Bennett
I certainly don't agree with Bennett. I'm just pointing out the inconsistancy of his posistion. It's Bennett that argued that drugs are wrong because they can be addictive, while slipping off to gamble himself. It's Bennett that has argued for hard traditional christian moral posistions, while somehow skipping over the fact that gambling is one of the things that is on the traditional christian moral list of bad things.
Personally I would like to see most drugs decriminalized.
Jay
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Post #100,290
5/4/03 9:37:21 PM
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Drugs VS Gambling
Note, speaking as a recovering drug addict (and including
alchohol):
Drugs cause altered state of mind for extended periods.
Drugs cause a huge impact on ability to judge while under
the influence.
Drug damage ability to drive, causing many deaths of innocent
bystanders.
Overdoses of uppers or downers can cause immediate death.
Overdoses of psychedelics (yum, my favorite) (LSD, shrooms, etc)
can permanently alter your ability to think. I suggest you
do not mix speed acid and meth. It took me a month to come down.
Stupid mistakes while under the influence often result in death.
Drugs can be physically addicting, causing painful or fatal
withdrawel if discontinued.
Drug cost a lot, which often triggers crime when a person is
faced with withdrawel.
Drugs used by pregnant women can cause permanent damage to the
fetus.
While I'm sure there is more, these were the easy ones.
Responsible use of drugs is possible. Criminalizing them
drives them underground, which means huge profits for the crazy
risk takers. I'd like to see them generally available at a
reasonable cost.
I'd also want to see mandatory mandatory jail time for DUI and
for providing them to a minor. This INCLUDES if your kids
manage to get in your stash. I'd also want your medical
coverage to refuse to pay for any medical care related to
an overdose unless you chose to add that care specifically
to the coverage. I'd also want double jail sentences for people
who commit crimes while under the influence. Since it screws
with your judgement and you've purposely altered you ability
to judge, and failings at that moment should be harshly punished.
Just like we now have designated drivers, we should have designated
non-stoners that will chaparone the stoned people.
Gambling:
Cause altered state of mind during the moment of play. And that
is only in people like myself. I know others that it has no
effect.
Can cost you all your money, and then some.
Can get you killed if you can't pay your debts.
Could cause no harm and actually allow you to make some money.
While this may only be a small percentage of gamblers, is it still
possible.
Of the 2, I see far less harm in gambling.
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Post #100,293
5/4/03 10:29:36 PM
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Gambling can destroy...
...vast tracts of land. \r\n\r\n There were several impressions I was left with after my cross-country jaunt. After realizing that travelling without a CD player or cruise control were idiocy, and that this is a huge (and often beautiful) country, there was the gambling. \r\n\r\n Used to be this only existed in Nevada and New Jersey. And it was ugly there. Now: California (reservation gambling), South Dakota, Missouri, Illinois, and others. \r\n\r\n Locally, there are a number of reservation casinos. Given the distribution of reservation land, many of these are off major routes. Meaning: two lane roads, often winding, with casinos drawing large quantities of traffic, often disgorged at or after sunset, after a day spent drinking, and more often than not, losing, at the slots and game tables. \r\n\r\n The result is a blight the length of this 20 mile valley. I like it as a biking route from Yolo County. It's also home to some of the only white-water rafting (class I/II) in the area -- no, it's not wild-and-crazy, but it's a great way to beat the heat. Many property owners are looking to get out. Motor vehicle accidents, drunks, casino-induced violence, brushfires, and vandalism aren't what they moved to this area for. The casinos, being sovereign Indian property, don't have to include these externalities in their own profit-loss statements. \r\n\r\n For one view, see [link|http://marcvaldez.blogspot.com/2003_02_16_marcvaldez_archive.html|this]. \r\n\r\n Much gambling in this country is reservation gambling. I see it as generally negative, it's quite unregulated. The professional gamblers avoid reservation casinos as the odds are typically very poor, or worse (though this could just be the old guard of Vegas and Atlantic City FUDing). \r\n\r\n In Oz, a similar rise in "gaming" has lead to a decimation of the live entertainment industry. If a bar can install one-armed bandits and draw twice what a good band would, without having book the band, put up with the bad bands, deal with the various issues associated with live music (yes, there's some overlap with the effects of gambling), etc. The result is far less nightlife in Sydney and other cities. --\r\n
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n
[link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n
\r\n
Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
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Post #100,295
5/4/03 10:34:56 PM
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dam indians :-)
As soon as they find a way to make a buck everyone comes out of the woodwork to decry it. The location problem is white made, they put the Indians on the shit no one else wanted and now people are complaining about the traffic.
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
Carpe Dieu
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Post #100,306
5/5/03 3:19:00 AM
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OT request
Please stop whacking RETURN at the end of every line :-)
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #100,332
5/5/03 10:02:20 AM
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Re: OT request
He's probably using a text browser - you have to do that with some of them.
-drl
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Post #100,415
5/5/03 8:58:45 PM
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OT response
I use Konquerer 3.0.0-3.
Sometimes it gets confused about very wide
lines and refuses to wrap them. At that
point the ENTIRE 100 word paragraph goes
to the right.
At that point I launch Mozilla.
I don't upgrade workstations, I install
a totally new release. I'm due. My last
box was primed, ready to switch over, and
then my son reminded me I'd promised him
for years his own computer. So I gave him
the new installed one.
I NEVER install in place. I setup a new box
and migrate to it. I'll have a few new ones
in about a week, so I should be able to scroll
correctly then.
Why do the embedded NLs upset you? Even in
email I tend to <RET> every 80 characters or
so out of deference to people on 80 char
screens.
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Post #100,439
5/5/03 10:02:34 PM
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text vs. formatted output
Plain text interfaces like nntp and email should have a <cr><lf> at the end of every line. Web interfaces will take care of wrapping for you; no matter how wide my real display is, the web browser will format it properly for the width of my display.
Your posts end up as tiny lines down the left hand side of the screen. That's probably what's irking Peter.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #100,458
5/5/03 10:27:58 PM
|
Speaking of irked
Your post is a single line across the right
hand side of my screen. I had to hit the
right scroll 4 times to read it.
Yes, I know, my fault for running a buggy
browser.
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Post #100,472
5/5/03 10:49:53 PM
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Yup.
Someone should be jumping in here to talk about [link|http://www.mozilla.org/|Mozilla], or [link|http://galeon.sourceforge.net/|Galeon] (which required Gnome and Mozilla), or even [link|http://elinks.or.cz/|ELinks] (a text mode browser that does tables and frames). :-)
KDE seems to be at 3.1.1a. I would suspect that Konqueror has been substantially updated as well. At least I would hope it would have been! A browser that has trouble with word wrapping is fundamentally broken, IMHO.
You might want to take a gander at [link|ftp://ftp.rutgers.edu/pub/kde/stable/latest|ftp://ftp.rutgers.ed...kde/stable/latest] or your favorite local KDE mirror. Even if you don't like updating your systems, there must be a better way for you to participate here than to have to hard-code your returns and scroll your viewing window.
I'd grab a copy of Mozilla if I were you. :-)
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #100,479
5/5/03 11:56:20 PM
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Re: I don't upgrade workstations
[link|http://www.debian.org/|Barry, Barry, Barry, get with the program.] --\r\n
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n
[link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n
\r\n
Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
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Post #100,499
5/6/03 8:04:40 AM
|
But... bbbbut.... BUUTTTT
It's not supported...
:)
| [link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - IT Grand-Master for Anti-President | | [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] |
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----\nVersion: 3.12+\nGAT d+ s+:++ a C++++ UBHLO++++ P+ L+++ E---/E---- W+++ N+ o--\nK--- w--- O+ M+ V-- PS-- PE Y+ PGP++ t+ 5++ X+ R tv+ b+++ DI+++\nD++ Q2+++ Q3A+++ UT+++ UT2K3+++ G e* h--- r+++ z+++*\n------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
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Post #100,632
5/6/03 6:52:06 PM
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Hehe
Personal home workstation Greg.
Do anything I please, as lazily as I please.
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Post #100,635
5/6/03 7:25:57 PM
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Thanks
Downloading via jigdo right now.
As usual, Greg attempts to make fun while you help.
Jigdo is amazing. I didn't know my cable modem was this fast.
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Post #100,641
5/6/03 7:54:21 PM
|
I'd send you a set of Disks...
But you'd just claim I was poking fun at you.
I have given out a ton.
Debian allows you to Upgrade/update incrementally as a scheduled task iffn you want. Once Debian is installed, providing it can see a Network Interface properly and/or a CD-ROM Drive, you'll never have to re-install it. That is unless you want a faster machine or run out of space.
| [link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - IT Grand-Master for Anti-President | | [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] |
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----\nVersion: 3.12+\nGAT d+ s+:++ a C++++ UBHLO++++ P+ L+++ E---/E---- W+++ N+ o--\nK--- w--- O+ M+ V-- PS-- PE Y+ PGP++ t+ 5++ X+ R tv+ b+++ DI+++\nD++ Q2+++ Q3A+++ UT+++ UT2K3+++ G e* h--- r+++ z+++*\n------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
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Post #100,643
5/6/03 8:50:37 PM
|
I believe you
I've seen you do it for many.
But no point. Cable modem is very fast.
I should have it all in about 60 minutes.
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Post #100,663
5/7/03 12:10:54 AM
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Jigdo
Indeed. Rocks. \r\n\r\n Let us know how it goes. \r\n\r\n If you need support (or jeers), point your Jabber client at iwethey.org and join group chat ziwt. \r\n\r\n We're teaching Yendor how to count to two as I speak. He's making definite progress. --\r\n
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n
[link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n
\r\n
Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
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Post #100,693
5/7/03 7:56:13 AM
|
Speaking of which ...
Debian allows you to Upgrade/update incrementally as a scheduled task iffn you want. I tried to set this up and obviously missed something. Here's what I put in /etc/cron.daily/apt: apt-get update
apt-get upgrade -d
And here's the mail I get in the morning: /etc/cron.daily/apt:
run-parts: failed to exec /etc/cron.daily/apt: Exec format error
run-parts: /etc/cron.daily/apt exited with return code 1 Can you tell I don't do shell scripts for a living? So what's the simple answer I don't know? ===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
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Post #100,713
5/7/03 10:24:33 AM
|
Well-formed scripts
Your shell scripts must: \r\n \r\n- Be executable: chmod +x /etc/cron.daily/apt
\r\n- Be scripts. Add a first line majick of #!/bin/sh
\r\n- If you want that update to run, you have to approve it: echo y | apt-get -d dist-upgrade. I'd add a '-u' switch for good measure to show what updated. You can also set this (somehow) in your apt preferences, check with
chins Greg for this. \r\n --\r\n
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n
[link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n
\r\n
Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
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Post #100,718
5/7/03 10:43:37 AM
|
I was missing the first-line magic
As for the apt options, I know that I want the script to download the updates but not install them. How do I tell it to download only, then how do I review what's going to be updated, then how do I tell it to install (or not) the stuff that's already been downloaded?
===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
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Post #100,728
5/7/03 11:17:16 AM
5/7/03 12:02:40 PM
|
apt-get options
The '-d' switch is 'download only'. To confirm, manually run 'apt-get dist-upgrade -s -u' (show only, show updated) to see what's going to run. Then 'apt-get dist-upgrade -u' to actually commit the changes. \r\n\r\n If you want to skip installing a package, put it on hold: echo 'packagename hold' | dpkg --set-selections will do this (or pass a file, or a 'here' document, or...). \r\n\r\n Edit: yes, I meant "dist-upgrade", not "update" (above, fixed, twice) --\r\n
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n
[link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n
\r\n
Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
Edited by kmself
May 7, 2003, 11:54:23 AM EDT
Edited by kmself
May 7, 2003, 12:02:40 PM EDT
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Post #100,731
5/7/03 11:19:55 AM
5/7/03 11:22:33 AM
|
Thanks, that's what I needed ... uhh, question
Did you mean apt-get upgrade?
===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
Edited by drewk
May 7, 2003, 11:22:33 AM EDT
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Post #100,344
5/5/03 10:56:12 AM
|
Heh..."I can quit any time I want..."
jb4
"We continue to live in a world where all our know-how is locked into binary files in an unknown format. If our documents are our corporate memory, Microsoft still has us all condemned to Alzheimer's."
Simon Phipps, SUN Microsystems
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Post #100,343
5/5/03 10:53:29 AM
5/5/03 10:54:41 AM
|
It IS so typical of the Moral Minority...
..that, if I say its bad, you Must be EXPUNGED of the DEMON that POSESSES you!!! (But I am to be pardoned if I take a nip now and again...and again......and again...and again)
Another hallmark of the neo-fascists: Do what I say, not what I do
jb4
"We continue to live in a world where all our know-how is locked into binary files in an unknown format. If our documents are our corporate memory, Microsoft still has us all condemned to Alzheimer's."
Simon Phipps, SUN Microsystems
Edited by jb4
May 5, 2003, 10:54:27 AM EDT
Edited by jb4
May 5, 2003, 10:54:41 AM EDT
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Post #100,962
5/8/03 4:02:36 PM
|
Evil laughter
"It would be different if he had written anti-gambling screeds," Mr. Kristol said. He never wrote about beastiality either. (From [link|http://www.mediawhoresonline.com/|MWO]) And from Leno- "Congratulations to Funny Cide, winner of the Kentucky Derby. I read today that $1.6 million was waged at the Kentucky Derby; ...but enough about Bill Bennett.
Bennett says his gambling is a personal matter, and he\ufffds not doing anything illegal and it\ufffds nobody\ufffds business. Or as he calls that in his book, the Clinton defense." -----------------------------------------
We have not had a Republican ex-president since Eisenhower who did not get a pardon or give one to his predecessor or staff
|
